The feeding of the four thousand is recorded both in Mark and in Mathew. The feeding of the five thousand occurs in all four Gospels. Jesus repeatedly draws the attention of the disciples to it's importance... ...which is never explicitly stated!

The miracle is the only creative act recorded (or should we include the water to wine miracle).

• There is no explanation of how it was accomplished
• In some ways it is similar to the temptation to change stones into bread
• It has a precedent in 1 Kings 17 when Elijah sojourned with a widow

I think in part it is a revelation of who Jesus is/was to the disciples - but am I missing something?

__________________
Eoghan
member,Thurso Baptist Church
Scotland

specialist subject: Creationist Genetics (Bottleneck effect of the Ark)
interests: holiness (practical theology)
member of Biblical Creation Society (available as a guest speaker in the far north of Scotland)

When you say "how" do you mean the miracle of it, or do you mean the manner in which they gave out the bread? The manner is a mute point I would think. Of course, the "how" is by His power.

Well, maybe...but I've always pretty well let the incident stand on its own.
Of course, there is the issue of the Lord's provision within view.

Nahhh, I don't think you are, but the disciples were mssing something.
Follow the order:
- They had just witnessed thousands of people fed with 7 loaves.
- The Pharisees wanted a "sign," but were not seeing the obvious. They refused to believe and promoted falsehoods.
- The disciples only had one loaf with them and were concerned about not having enough, even though they had just witnessed Jesus feed thousands with just 7 loaves.
Jesus points out the past incidents...12 baskets left with the feeding of the 5,000 and 7 baskets left from the 4,000.
You are correct about this being a revelation as to who He is, but it is also about trusting Him to provide for His own.
"7" is the number of wholeness, completeness. "12" is, of course, how many disciples there were.
The "leaven" of the Pahrisees was their corruption, which went hand in hand with their teachings. The disciples would learn nothing but corruption and unbelief from the Pharisees who were incapable of "getting it." Beware of the corruption, the unbelief, the error of the Pharisees.
The point is they needed to accept the full truth of Christ. WHO He is, and ALL that He is. The Messiah....yes...but much more.
"12" is the number of followers, and Christ provides for His own who seek first the Kingdom, and then all that is needed is provided.
"7" is the number of fulness, completeness, and in Him we are complete, He is our all in all, He is the fulness of the God-head.
2CO 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;

EPH 1:23 which is His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all.
EPH 3:19 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fulness of God.
EPH 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fulness of Christ.
COL 1:19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fulness to dwell in Him,
COL 2:9 For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
COL 2:10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;



I'm probably missing some other elements, but this text really exalts and glorifies the fullness of the person and provision of Christ.

__________________
Ralph
Pastor
Valera Baptist Church
Valera, Texas

Still not sure I am not missing something.

Jesus is "the bread of life"

The Lord's prayer requires us to ask for our daily bread.

In the Lord's supper His body is symbolised by the bread.

There's probably a lot more we could learn that applies, starting with the John 6 "Bread of Life" teaching (which followed the 5,000 feeding, but as we've stated the incidents are similar so it stands to reason some themes would be also).

As for OT precedent, I'd say the biggest precedent in the Elijah/Elisha accounts is not the widow's flour and oil in 1 Kings 17 but rather Elisha's feeding of 100 men with 20 loaves in 2 Kings 4:
"A man came from Baal-shalishah, bringing the man of God bread of the firstfruits, twenty loaves of barley and fresh ears of grain in his sack. And Elisha said, “Give to the men, that they may eat.” But his servant said, “How can I set this before a hundred men?” So he repeated, “Give them to the men, that they may eat, for thus says the Lord, ‘They shall eat and have some left.’” So he set it before them. And they ate and had some left, according to the word of the Lord."

That incident took place during a famine. I'd say its redemptive purpose lies in overturning the curse on the land... how being able to eat comes only through hard work and sweat and even then sometimes we're left hungry. Jesus does essentially the same miracle on an even grander scale. He fills those who are hungry, both food-wise and spiritually, until they overflow. He provides for all our deepest needs.

I also think there are good lessons in the Mark passage about the compassion of Jesus. In answer to your question about the disciples, Jesus seems to be teaching them about both compassion and faith and how these work together.

I like everything Ralph said, too, as he pays good attention to the immediate context in Mark.

__________________
Jack K.
PCA, worshiping with some fine Baptists in Colorado

I suppose my concern is that we "claim" this text to feed us. In a famine situation would we ever be right to claim this? It would seem the emphasis is on meeting our physical need of food.

Taking it one step further I worry it opens a door to the charismatic view of the miraculous.

The charismatics have no monopoly on the miraculous, and avoiding the miraculous isn't the answer. This WAS a miraculous sign. You can be clear and say this doesn't mean God will make the food in your pantry start reproducing itself. The Bible balances itself. Yes, the Lord provides all things for those who trust and follow Him, spiritually and physically. As far as food goes, the Biblical balance is "if a man will not work, let him not eat." The lazy person should expect nothing.
If we trust the Lord, follow Him, look to Him for all our needs, and are willing to work with our own hands He will provide.
Have you seen the righteous forsaken or their seed begging for bread?
Christ spoke alot about God providing the physical needs of those who look to Him, so there's nothing wrong with addressing that side of it.
At the same time, that highlights the reality of who He is and His fulfilling of the the greatest need of humanity. The Bread of Life provides not just the temporary bread that perishes, but the bread that gives everlasting life (Himself.)
Yes, there is the issue of the Lord being the provider, and in America this is a very relevant message now. Most are looking to Government as their savior and provider. Their focus needs to be redirected heavenward.
Jesus did use "bread" alot. It is no coincidence that He used "bread" to refer to His body. Bread (provided by the Lord), being the common food staple, as we hold it in our hands and partake of it should remind us of the body of Christ which was broken to provide our greatest need.

GOOD point! The Pharisees (whom Jesus warned them about) were not known for their compassion. Christ did not simply say "Be warm. Be filled." and then do nothing. Following Him requires that we not do that as well, but actually meet the need.