Who is the eden? Church or the earth?

__________________
Richard W. Roldan "Ricky"
Member and Teacher of Iglesia Presbiteriana Reformada Berea (PCA)
Winter Haven, FL.
Under Care of the Southwest Presb. (PCA)

Which millenial view best fits the covenant pattern of:

Creation
Fall/Apostasy
ReCreation


Roldan, in another post I asked why Christ seemingly abandoned his Bride in a hostile world, like Lot offering his daughters to the men of Sodom.

I must say your interpretation of Ez. 36 was compelling.

__________________
Misery induces despair, pride induces presumption. The Incarnation shows man the
greatness of his misery by the greatness of the remedy which he required.
~ Pascal, Pensees 526

Paul says: "note: Ye shall dwell in the land I gave your fathers. What did he give Abraham? The earth!"

[b:6baf0c68d7]You equate the Land of Cannan with the whole earth?[/b:6baf0c68d7]

Paul says"note: The cities will be built up. The LAND will be tilled."

note: This LAND that was desolate has become like the garden of eden.

O.K. Now, Roldan has said that the land that becomes like the garden of eden is the church and this happens at the consumation

But what does the next verse say?

note: then the nations left round about you.

So, we have non-christians that are LEFT ROUND ABOUT YOU after the consumation"

[b:6baf0c68d7]Where did I say that this passage was speaking about the consumation? Let me repost what I said concerning this passage:[/b:6baf0c68d7]

What's the point you ask, if not already obvious. The prophets depict the nation of Israel and its temple the garen of eden. The Church now is Israel and therefore the garden of eden /mountain NOT the earth. The Church as the garden of Eden will reach its fullness of beauty in the second coming. Allelujah!!!!!

So when the kingdom is extended through the preaching of the gospel and many are saved and brought into the "garden of God", the heathen will take notice. God will fill the Church and will be evident to the heathen.



Lastly Paul said:"p.s. the text implies that when the nations see this it has reached its fullness. That is, "It HAS BECOME" the text doesn't say, "it IS BECOMMING"

[b:6baf0c68d7]Instead of relying on implication with respect to prophecy here, why not just let the New interpret the Old?[/b:6baf0c68d7]


[b:6baf0c68d7]Also according to your interpretation, you haven't answered this problematic question to your theory:[/b:6baf0c68d7]

[b:6baf0c68d7]Let the reader also take notice that right after vs 35 speaks of the Eden, vs. 36 says that "..the NATIONS WHICH ARE LEFT ALL AROUND.." If ALL nations will be subdued hence bringing in the golden age garden of eden, WHY are there NATIONS LEFT?! [/b:6baf0c68d7]

:goodpost: Paul

[Edited on 4-16-2004 by Roldan]

[Edited on 4-16-2004 by Roldan]

I am not so sure Ezekiel 36 is talking about the millenium.

It can be simply pointing out that the world is a better place because of Christianity.

[quote:af1042fcbd][i:af1042fcbd]Originally posted by Wintermute[/i:af1042fcbd]
It can be simply pointing out that the world is a better place because of Christianity. [/quote:af1042fcbd]

BINGO!:shocked3:

[quote:341d4a2ff3][i:341d4a2ff3]Originally posted by paul manata[/i:341d4a2ff3]

p.s. I am debating the brothas (Roldan/Optimus). If I get a break from these two post (besides getting to the apologetics page to handle the misrepresenter of Van Til), I will get to the Col. thread).

-Paul

[Edited on 4-16-2004 by paul manata] [/quote:341d4a2ff3]

Actually, your debating Winter and myself, optimus is just asking questions. But I am learning from your debate on the Vantil thread and find that you are doing a good job. If you must refrain from this debate so you can concentrate and take more time on it no hard feelings, but if you want to continue,

Bring it on posty :fight:

[Edited on 4-16-2004 by Roldan]

[quote:1030d227d3]
What does "The nations LEFT AROUND YOU" mean?
[/quote:1030d227d3]

The Nations who have not submitted to the gospel.

Then the saga continues and the war intensifies.

:samurai: :ninja:



:sw: :tank:


Will be back.

[quote:abcbe3ee85][i:abcbe3ee85]Originally posted by Wintermute[/i:abcbe3ee85]
[quote:abcbe3ee85]
What does "The nations LEFT AROUND YOU" mean?
[/quote:abcbe3ee85]

The Nations who have not submitted to the gospel. [/quote:abcbe3ee85]


Once again I say BINGO!

[quote:e738b4d040][i:e738b4d040]Originally posted by paul manata[/i:e738b4d040]
:closed:

Bingo!

Hey I got to have some others on my side [/quote:e738b4d040]

:nopity: :blah1:


:justkidding:

Note: I never said it would happen after the SC.

[quote:ad3a14270f][i:ad3a14270f]Originally posted by Wintermute[/i:ad3a14270f]
Note: I never said it would happen after the SC. [/quote:ad3a14270f]

Note: me neither!

The church is in the process of being filled and beautified but will come to is CONSUMATION at the SECOND COMING!

And prophecy has its typical fulfillment and its final fulfillment aspects and claim it here in this passage.

peace

Right Roldan . . the [i:f9c43d70a2] Analogia Fidei [/i:f9c43d70a2] (Analogy Of Faith). . . . . . Already/Not Yet

[Edited on 4-16-2004 by Wintermute]

[quote:380145bb08][i:380145bb08]Originally posted by Wintermute[/i:380145bb08]
Right Roldan . . the [i:380145bb08] Analogia Fidei [/i:380145bb08] (Analogy Of Faith). . . . . . Already/Not Yet

[Edited on 4-16-2004 by Wintermute] [/quote:380145bb08]

Correctamente!:thumbup:

Paul-
I know that I might be too late to come along side you in this debate, but i wanted to say that your interpretation of Eze. 36 was right on. I have been convinced of the postmill view for about seven months now, and the more I study the more I realize the great magnitude of the gospel's effect on the earth. I am friends with Roldan, and don't worry, though he is an "optimistic amill" he ministers and lives for the gosple as if he believed the promise of the greatly fullfilled great commission Roldan, I love you bro, we need to get together, it's been too long. I'll give you a call this week. Paul, continue to proclaim the great success of our Lord's gosple in this world through his church.
May the Lord bless both of you brothers.

Consistent

__________________
John Howell

member of Grace Christian Fellowship, Largo, FL

[url]www.gracechristian.com[/url]

Director of External Operations, Tota Reformanda Ministries

[url]www.totareformanda.org[/url]

My responses are coming:bs2:

[quote:c2749cce0a][i:c2749cce0a]Originally posted by paul manata[/i:c2749cce0a]
[quote:c2749cce0a][i:c2749cce0a]Originally posted by Roldan[/i:c2749cce0a]
My responses are coming:bs2: [/quote:c2749cce0a]

have you been studying this whole time??? [/quote:c2749cce0a]

Well I always study, but I have been working long hours and I didn't have internet access but now have revived

by the way man, you look like a cat that I wouldn't want to make angry, no what I mean?