» Site Navigation | | | » Online Users: 133 | | 41 members and 92 guests | | asc, AThornquist, austinww, Backwoods Presbyterian, baron, Berean, Brad, CredoFidoSpero, Curt, Dearly Bought, DMcFadden, Edward, gene_mingo, Hamalas, HokieAirman, Jake, Jon Peters, KMK, KSon, markkoller, Montanablue, nicnap, PointingToChrist, Puritan Sailor, PuritanCovenanter, satz, smhbbag, SolaSaint, Soonerborn, Southern Presbyterian, SteppingHeavenward, Titus35, toddpedlar, VictorBravo, Zenas | | Most users ever online was 856, 07-06-2007 at 12:19 AM. | |  | 
01-20-2009, 10:38 PM
|  | Puritanboard Graduate | | Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: SC
Posts: 3,224
Thanks: 1,094
Thanked 579 Times in 431 Posts
| | | Good suggestions on Ecclesiastes?
I would love to have a solid commentary on Ecclesiastes...anyone know of any REALLY GOOD ones?
Thanks.
__________________ soli Deo gloria!
~Nicholas~ Ordained Pastor
Member, Fulton PCA; GPTS Student
Christians are like snow covered dung; it is the purity of the covering which the Father sees. -Luther-
There is nothing more ugly than a Christian orthodoxy without understanding or without compassion.
-Francis Schaeffer-
| 
01-20-2009, 11:11 PM
|  | Vanilla Westminsterian | | Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 10,523
Thanks: 335
Thanked 3,503 Times in 1,413 Posts
| | |
I found Kidner and Eaton to be good (if short) commentaries.
__________________ Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX) Christ Church Blog "The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle) | | The Following User Says Thank You to fredtgreco For This Useful Post: | | 
01-20-2009, 11:32 PM
|  | Puritanboard Freshman | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Hastings, Hawkes Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 137
Thanks: 26
Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts
| | |
A excellent commentary is Ecclesiastes by Tremper Longman (NICOT series).
__________________
Stephen Smith
Reformed Baptist
New Zealand
| | The Following User Says Thank You to Stephen L Smith For This Useful Post: | | 
01-21-2009, 08:46 AM
| | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 971
Thanks: 148
Thanked 639 Times in 267 Posts
| | |
Charles Bridges is excellent--published by Banner of Truth. The other indispensable work is James Hamilton's The Royal Preacher. Although not a verse-by-verse commentary as much as a series of lectures (still pretty thorough) it was the most stimulating work theologically and devotionally I used when preaching through Ecclesiastes.
| | The Following User Says Thank You to ADKing For This Useful Post: | | 
01-21-2009, 01:03 PM
|  | Puritanboard Graduate | | Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: SC
Posts: 3,224
Thanks: 1,094
Thanked 579 Times in 431 Posts
| | |
Thanks guys.
| 
01-21-2009, 01:13 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 748
Thanks: 93
Thanked 264 Times in 171 Posts
| | |
I have found a lot of profit in H.C. Leupold's Exposition of Ecclesiastes.
| | The Following User Says Thank You to Guido's Brother For This Useful Post: | | 
01-21-2009, 01:27 PM
|  | Puritanboard Graduate | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leduc, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,611
Thanks: 253
Thanked 955 Times in 498 Posts
| | |
I second the Eaton recommendation, especially his introduction to the book.
__________________
Rev. Daniel Kok
Pastor of Grace Reformed Church (URCNA)
Leduc, Alberta CANADA
"What sort of pledge and how great is this of love towards us! Christ lives for us not for himself!"
John Calvin, Commentary on the Hebrews (7:25)
| | The Following User Says Thank You to Poimen For This Useful Post: | | 
01-21-2009, 01:28 PM
|  | Vanilla Westminsterian | | Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 10,523
Thanks: 335
Thanked 3,503 Times in 1,413 Posts
| |
Nicholas,
Here is a link to the Hamilton work mentioned that I uploaded in PDF: Hamilton Royal Preacher
There is also a good commentary by Reynolds.
| | The Following User Says Thank You to fredtgreco For This Useful Post: | | 
01-21-2009, 01:30 PM
|  | Puritanboard Graduate | | Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: SC
Posts: 3,224
Thanks: 1,094
Thanked 579 Times in 431 Posts
| | |
Thanks for the link Fred. I appreciate it.
Thanks to all.
| 
01-21-2009, 01:32 PM
|  | Administrator | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hague, North Dakota
Posts: 3,063
Thanks: 981
Thanked 2,455 Times in 841 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen L Smith A excellent commentary is Ecclesiastes by Tremper Longman (NICOT series). | I actually disagree with this assessment. I found this commentary to be among the very worst on Ecclesiastes, because of his view of the frame narrators. Basically, for Longman, the Preacher is a heretic, and almost no positive theology can be gleaned from the book at all except for the frame narrator. The same goes for his disciple in the Revised Expositor's Bible Commentary (written by a disciple of Longman). The very best technical commentary on Ecclesiastes is Choon Leong-Seow in the Anchor Bible. It is surprisingly helpful for a series that is usually liberal. Time after time, he had the best comments. For easier reads, I would go with Ferguson's book _The Pundit's Folly_, and also Kidner and Eaton, as Fred mentioned.
| | The Following User Says Thank You to greenbaggins For This Useful Post: | | 
01-21-2009, 01:54 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Marmora NJ
Posts: 653
Thanks: 54
Thanked 85 Times in 61 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbaggins Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen L Smith A excellent commentary is Ecclesiastes by Tremper Longman (NICOT series). | I actually disagree with this assessment. I found this commentary to be among the very worst on Ecclesiastes, because of his view of the frame narrators. Basically, for Longman, the Preacher is a heretic, and almost no positive theology can be gleaned from the book at all except for the frame narrator. The same goes for his disciple in the Revised Expositor's Bible Commentary (written by a disciple of Longman). The very best technical commentary on Ecclesiastes is Choon Leong-Seow in the Anchor Bible. It is surprisingly helpful for a series that is usually liberal. Time after time, he had the best comments. For easier reads, I would go with Ferguson's book _The Pundit's Folly_, and also Kidner and Eaton, as Fred mentioned. | I found Longman's thesis the best way to make sense of some of the bizzare(unorthodox) wisdom of the preacher. I found his argument for internal evidences against full Solomenic authorship compelling. How do you suggest we take said wisdom otherwise? It is hard for me to buy the confused backsliden theory. What is it about the frame theory that causes you to reject it? Thanks
__________________
Bruce
PCUSA
Ocean City NJ
| 
01-21-2009, 02:08 PM
|  | Vanilla Westminsterian | | Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 10,523
Thanks: 335
Thanked 3,503 Times in 1,413 Posts
| |
I'm with Lane here. (But then again, I'm not a big Longman fan in general). Kidner and Eaton do a very good job of explaining the correct take on the book - which I view as a missions oriented book. It is Solomon's way of explaining all the things he tried with no satisfaction.
I preached an entire series through the book, and found no difficulty at all with it. Christ Church PCA Ecclesiastes Sermons
I cannot understand why anyone would think that the Lord would include a heretic's book in Scripture.
| | The Following User Says Thank You to fredtgreco For This Useful Post: | | 
01-21-2009, 02:38 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Marmora NJ
Posts: 653
Thanks: 54
Thanked 85 Times in 61 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by fredtgreco I'm with Lane here. (But then again, I'm not a big Longman fan in general). Kidner and Eaton do a very good job of explaining the correct take on the book - which I view as a missions oriented book. It is Solomon's way of explaining all the things he tried with no satisfaction.
I preached an entire series through the book, and found no difficulty at all with it. Christ Church PCA Ecclesiastes Sermons I cannot understand why anyone would think that the Lord would include a heretic's book in Scripture. | Frederick thank you. Having preached the whole book you are much more familiar with it than I am. You know that the preacher makes some pretty bizzare statements and seemingly opposite flip flop statements that have nothing to do with things and their satisfaction. How did you harmonize these segments with orthodox theology and wisdom of YHVH and His people? And to answer your last question, if Longman is correct the heretical book is bracketed by an inspired author to be shown as such, heresy. This could certainly be used to instruct the people of God. Did you read Longman's take on it? Thank you for your input on it.
| 
01-21-2009, 02:47 PM
|  | Iron Dramatist | | Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Decorah, IA
Posts: 6,258
Thanks: 251
Thanked 2,373 Times in 1,240 Posts
| | |
Pundit's Folly is a really nice exposition packaged in a wonderful way. Ferguson really swayed me to a position that Ecclesiastes does have good evangelistic function.
I'm also with Fred on the Longman thesis - it's really disturbing when otherwise solid folks take the liberal's position on a book of Holy writ. Why one needs to posit non-Solomonic authorship in the first place is a mystery to me - it's very easy to hear the whole book as Solomon's reflections on this life and hope for the next; not hard at all to imagine the man speaking those words to me as my elder brother helping me gain better perspective on the world and God's sovereign rule over it.
Don't miss Edward Reynolds's exposition, either, in volume 4 of his works. It together with Bridges served to gird up my own teaching of Ecclesiastes in our sunday school this fall.
| 
01-21-2009, 02:54 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Marmora NJ
Posts: 653
Thanks: 54
Thanked 85 Times in 61 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by toddpedlar Pundit's Folly is a really nice exposition packaged in a wonderful way. Ferguson really swayed me to a position that Ecclesiastes does have good evangelistic function.
I'm also with Fred on the Longman thesis - it's really disturbing when otherwise solid folks take the liberal's position on a book of Holy writ. - it's very easy to hear the whole book as Solomon's reflections on this life and hope for the next; not hard at all to imagine the man speaking those words to me as my elder brother helping me gain better perspective on the world and God's sovereign rule over it.
Don't miss Edward Reynolds's exposition, either, in volume 4 of his works. It together with Bridges served to gird up my own teaching of Ecclesiastes in our sunday school this fall. | Thank you Todd. This need not be a mystery. Longman points out statements made by the preacher that seem out of place to be made by Solomon King of Israel. One I remember is where he laments injustice in the land. As king of Israel he would have total control of injustice if he chose to. There are others. Have you read Longmans take? Any more thoughts on why it must be wrong?
| 
01-21-2009, 04:41 PM
|  | Puritanboard Graduate | | Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: SC
Posts: 3,224
Thanks: 1,094
Thanked 579 Times in 431 Posts
| | |
I actually take it from Fred's stance. My view is that the preacher is looking at "life under the sun" as if life were without God (vanity)- he brings it around when he says to remember your Creator in ch.12.
The pursuit of wisdom without revelation from the God of the Bible is vanity, thus Parmenides, Heraclitus, Plato... If there is no God, then all of Life "under the sun" is vanity, and we should conclude with Camus that the only question is suicide.
The pursuit of happiness without revelation from the God of the Bible is vanity, and empty pleasure leads to more vanity...etc.
And so is my take on Ecclesiastes, all the way through until the preacher brings his sermon home and applies it in 12.
So...that is why I am looking for good commentaries. I have seen a couple REALLY BAD ones, and am wanting the opposite.
Blessings.
| 
01-21-2009, 05:46 PM
|  | Puritanboard Freshman | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 26
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
| |
Hi Bruce,
Here is a link to a critique of Longman V13N3A3
__________________
Tristan Weeks-Galindo
Desert Springs PCA
Tucson, Arizona
| 
01-21-2009, 09:28 PM
| | Puritanboard Junior | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mountain Lake Park, MD
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 366
Thanked 284 Times in 197 Posts
| | luther on ecclesiastes - Christianbook.com Search
By far the best commentary I have ever read on this section of Scripture! I think he's spot on, especially with regard to context! Worth every penny!
__________________
Charles Plauger
Member/Grace Reformed Church
Oakland, MD
| | The Following User Says Thank You to moral necessity For This Useful Post: | | 
01-21-2009, 09:36 PM
|  | Puritanboard Freshman | | Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: O'Fallon, IL
Posts: 44
Thanks: 10
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
| | |
Though not a commentary per se, Peter Leithart's Solomon Among the Postmoderns may prove helpful to some of the philosophical bricolage of the Preacher.
__________________
Rev. JR HARRIS
Assistant Pastor
Redeemer Community Church (PCA)
O'Fallon, IL
| | The Following User Says Thank You to Logopneumatika For This Useful Post: | | 
01-21-2009, 10:01 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: santa rosa, CA
Posts: 758
Thanks: 95
Thanked 53 Times in 38 Posts
| | |
As you can already tell there are almost as many views on Ecclesiastes as there are commentaries.
A preacher I very much respect did a GREAT series on Ecclesiastes...here is his bibliography he shared with the congregation. A Bibliography on Qoheleth
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Many of you have asked about helpful resources on Qoheleth. This is tricky because the larger issues of theme, structure, theology and intent all radically impact the way that an interpreter deals with individual texts. The following is my own annotated bibliography. The Good (the helpful)
Reflecting with Solomon, Selected Studies on the Book of Ecclesiastes, edited by Roy Zuck (Baker Bookhouse). This is by far the most helpful volume on Qoheleth. A number of the essays are priceless, especially chs. 1, 4, 5, 9, 15. (Ch 5 by Ardel Canedy is excellent, and most helpful).
Five Festal Garments, Christian Reflections on The Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes and Esther by Barry Webb (IVP). Webb's chapter on Ecc is very, very helpful.
Expositor's Bible Commentary Vol. 5, "Ecclesiastes," by J. Stafford Wright (Zondervan). This is helpful commentary, set within a fairly good interpretative structure.
The New American Commentary, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs by Duane Garrett (Broadman). Garrett is also helpful and set within a fairly good interpretative structure.
Koheleth- The Man and His World by Robert Gordis (Shocken). Gordis is a Jewish scholar and although this commentary is based on the Hebrew text and has some interpretive flaws, some of comments, especially in the intro, are very insightful.
Joy at the End of the Tether by Doug Wilson (Canon Press). Although this is not a technical commentary, or even really a textual commentary, Wilson's approach is similar to mine. It is a good read, even when you disagree.
A Table in the Mist, Ecclesiastes Through New Eyes by Jeffery Meyers (Athanasius Press). Very good, similar to my understanding of Ecc. The bad (not really bad, but not nearly as helpful)
The Message of Ecclesiastes by Derek Kidner (IVP). Kidner is a wonderful OT scholar, whom I enjoy frequently. However, in his exposition of Ecc he takes one of the various antithesis approaches: the Solomon figure is having a dialogue/debate with himself between secularism and faith. Kidner does have some helpful comments, but his interpretative structure takes a lot of the bite out of Qoheleth.
Charles Bridges' (Geneva Bible Commentary) and Michael Eaton (Tyndale Old Testament Commentary) take an antithesis or dialectical view, in that the writer is presenting life without God, apart from faith, etc.
Sinclair Ferguson, The Pundit's Folly (Banner of Truth) fits or floats between Kidner and the latter two. The Ugly (the truly worthless)
Tremper Longman's The Book of Ecclesiastes, NICOT (Eerdmans) is terrible. He thinks Qoheleth was an unorthodox, skeptical sage, and the book was redeemed by the frame narrator who added the last few orthodox verses.
Breaking the Idols of Your Heart by Longman and Allendar is a popularization of Longman's view through story. See my review of this book in Southern Baptist Theological Journal, Spring 08, 116-118.
Leupold, Exposition of Ecclesiastes (Baker), Hengstenberg, Ecclesiastes (Sovereign Grace) and Delitzsch, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon (Eerdmans) all have a very negative views of Qoheleth, and thus their commentaries have very little value.
__________________
Matthew Morales (Husband to Rachel)
Redeemer Presbyterian Church (Santa Rosa, CA)
"...But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word." Isaiah 66:2b (ESV)
"Judge not the Lord by feeble sense, But trust Him for his grace;
Behind a frowning providence He hides a smiling face"-William Cowper
| | The Following User Says Thank You to matthew11v25 For This Useful Post: | | 
01-21-2009, 10:34 PM
|  | Vanilla Westminsterian | | Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 10,523
Thanks: 335
Thanked 3,503 Times in 1,413 Posts
| | |
I'm going to (respctfully) disagree with the last two posts. I would not spend a dime on anything Leithart wrote. I also would not consider Wilson or Myers go to guys for a commentary. I'd likely reverse the "good" and the "The bad (not really bad, but not nearly as helpful" categories.
| 
01-21-2009, 11:06 PM
|  | Puritanboard Freshman | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Hastings, Hawkes Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 137
Thanks: 26
Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbaggins Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen L Smith A excellent commentary is Ecclesiastes by Tremper Longman (NICOT series). | I actually disagree with this assessment. I found this commentary to be among the very worst on Ecclesiastes, because of his view of the frame narrators. | I have noted there is little agreement on this thread on a good commentary and I suspect this reflects the confusing nature of Ecclesiastes. I stand by my defence of Longman's commentary. Longman's work is highly rated by many Reformed ministries (eg More College, Sydney; John Piper; Westminster Seminary etc). I always look at the broader endorsement when considering a good commentary. Longman points out that Qohelet does not refer to God using His covenantal name and this is one of many reflections of the troubling theology of Qohelet. Longman rightly points out the book is a reflection of Rom 8:18-21. It is worth reading the 4 theology chapters (in the introduction) carefully. I myself do not agree with all his commentary but still consider it a fine commentary.
| 
01-21-2009, 11:08 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 797
Thanks: 91
Thanked 500 Times in 256 Posts
| | |
Nick, Dr. Shaw specifically mentioned (on the OTI DVD) Longman's commentary as an extremely poor one. If you talk with him, I believe he has some recommendations. I used to lean toward the dual authorship theory, but now I realize that it creates as many or more problems than it proposes to solve.
__________________
Charlie Johnson
Downtown Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, student
| | The Following User Says Thank You to CharlieJ For This Useful Post: | | 
01-22-2009, 10:43 AM
|  | Administrator | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hague, North Dakota
Posts: 3,063
Thanks: 981
Thanked 2,455 Times in 841 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by A5pointer Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbaggins Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen L Smith A excellent commentary is Ecclesiastes by Tremper Longman (NICOT series). | I actually disagree with this assessment. I found this commentary to be among the very worst on Ecclesiastes, because of his view of the frame narrators. Basically, for Longman, the Preacher is a heretic, and almost no positive theology can be gleaned from the book at all except for the frame narrator. The same goes for his disciple in the Revised Expositor's Bible Commentary (written by a disciple of Longman). The very best technical commentary on Ecclesiastes is Choon Leong-Seow in the Anchor Bible. It is surprisingly helpful for a series that is usually liberal. Time after time, he had the best comments. For easier reads, I would go with Ferguson's book _The Pundit's Folly_, and also Kidner and Eaton, as Fred mentioned. | I found Longman's thesis the best way to make sense of some of the bizzare(unorthodox) wisdom of the preacher. I found his argument for internal evidences against full Solomenic authorship compelling. How do you suggest we take said wisdom otherwise? It is hard for me to buy the confused backsliden theory. What is it about the frame theory that causes you to reject it? Thanks | Because the frame narrator says explicitly "This man was wise" (Ecc. 12:9). What is usually missed by proponents of Longman's thesis (not to mention the reason why so much of Ecclesiastes is difficult) is that the Preacher is trying a thought experiment of what life looks like without God (this is the meaning of the phrase "under the sun"). The narrator's final comment also points in this direction: you have to include God in the picture (vv. 13-14 of ch. 12). Therefore, I utterly reject Longman's thesis. An additional point is required here: the issue of how Solomon is involved is a completely distinct question from whether Longman's thesis is correct or not.
| | The Following User Says Thank You to greenbaggins For This Useful Post: | | 
01-22-2009, 12:02 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: santa rosa, CA
Posts: 758
Thanks: 95
Thanked 53 Times in 38 Posts
| | |
Is the presence of a Frame-Narrator in Ecclesiastes commonly accepted?
Fred, I should have clarified that I vouch for the series that the pastor preached not necessarily the listed resources since I have only interacted with a few on the list.
| 
01-22-2009, 12:34 PM
|  | Vanilla Westminsterian | | Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 10,523
Thanks: 335
Thanked 3,503 Times in 1,413 Posts
| | |
Matthew,
I understand completely. I was not trying to be critical of you, but rather to cast a warning before others potentially reading this thread.
| 
01-22-2009, 12:52 PM
|  | Puritanboard Senior | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ringgold, Georgia
Posts: 2,420
Thanks: 364
Thanked 145 Times in 95 Posts
| |
Ah, Ecclesiastes, the most marked up book in my Bible!
I agree with the Ferguson, Hamilton, Kidner Recommendations. Consider also the ACCS ( Ancient Christian Commentary Series ). Another recommendation, unusual though it may be is Robert L. Shorts Book entitled A Time to be Born A Time to Die. It's a wonderful book ( 1973 ) of Ecclesiastes in Pictures. There is much good commentary to be found in the back as well. There just happens to be a copy of it on sale on Ebay. I would definately snag it. It is thought provoking and worth the purchase IMHO! A Time to Be Born--A Time to Die by Robert L. Short ... - eBay (item 200298950839 end time Feb-13-09 12:00:39 PST) | | The Following User Says Thank You to caddy For This Useful Post: | | 
01-22-2009, 02:16 PM
|  | Puritanboard Freshman | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Hastings, Hawkes Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 137
Thanks: 26
Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts
| |
Ligonier Ministries has a list of commentaries worth checking out Top 5 Commentaries on the Book of Ecclesiastes | Ligonier Ministries. Putting Longman in the 'Top 5' to my mind is a balanced assessment. The others listed are also ones positively discussed on this board.
| | The Following User Says Thank You to Stephen L Smith For This Useful Post: | |  | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | |