"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."

This topic was discussed in a greater context in another recent thread. However, I was wondering about the various opinions of PBers. The poll references the three major views, plus a forth silly (but still proposed) view. If you hold to a different view, please list that below (if you are brave enough!).

View 1 -- The offspring of angels ("sons of God") and women ("daughters of men")

View 2 -- Descendants of the lines of Seth ("sons of God") Cain ("daughters of men") intermarrying

View 3 -- Royalty (great men of antiquity)

View 4 -- The offspring of space aliens mating with human women :rollyeyes:

Update: Just for fun, here's one of the odder interpretations...

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Tim Phillips
Pastor, Midlane Park Presbyterian Church (ARP)
Louisville, KY
Husband of Scottish Lass
My Blog: Gairney Bridge
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"Wherever the gospel is preached, it is as if God Himself came into the midst of us." ~ John Calvin

I think what's most troubling (to me anyway) about the passage is where it says "there were giants on the earth". Maybe that's what trips others up?

Perhaps the mark on Cain was an extra tall stature which was a mark of separation from Seth's line.

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Toni Cunningham, Wife of Bill (Theognome)
Parkwoods OPC, Overland Park KS

"Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, As, to be hated, needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, We first endure, then pity, then embrace." ~ Alexander Pope

That's not the only problem with number one. Another problem is that the offspring of a woman and a spirit means another virgin birth.

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Tim Vaughan
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian, OPC,
Santa Maria
California

That's very interesting!

OK. I want to change my vote...

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[quote=KMK;585786]OK. I want to change my vote

Reminds me of that bumper sticker - If you're on the wrong road, God allows U-turns.

Obviously, they were the ancestors of the wrestlers on WWF.

Theognome

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Bill Cunningham
Covenant Reformed Church, URC
Kansas City
There are three kinds of people- those who can count, and those who can't.

Wow, Honey! Can't wait for our next family worship!

They were the creators of the Stargates.

Either that, or they were the Goa'uld.

On a serious note, I hold that they were men whose genetic degradation was less pronounced than that of their descendants, making them mightier than their offspring.

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Jonathan
Audio Engineer
Reformed Anabaptist
Ohio

Moroni's magical glasses of proper interpretation:

I DON'T KNOW! But my God does, and someday He'll tell me if'n I need to know.

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Brad
Member- Eagle Heights PCA
Winchester, VA

Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Yep... I have a growing list for Him.

Ofspring from Seth and Cain

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Martin - Reformed
Husband to the most godly, honorable and loyal wife Line
Searching for a Church
Webpage www.5solas.dk
Free Online Reformed Seminary - http://www.tnars.net
Soli Deo Gloria

number two

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sarah
WI
OPC
My Pastor's Sermons: Mark Jenkins...he's awesome!!!

Go to the toilet

yikes didn't think of it that way

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

If the Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man... isn't it implying that the Nephilim existed before the daughters of men bore children to the sons of God? It seems to me like there is a "before and after" in this phrase. If not, why?

-----Added 4/5/2009 at 04:05:19 EST-----

My vote is "other", I think there was a race of people that for unknown reasons were giants but I don't think that the author of Genesis intends to link them to the union of the sons of God and the daughters of men, since it seems to say that the Nephilim were on the earth before this union.

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Manuel Rivas
Merritt Island, Fl

Neanderthals (Homo neanderthalensis)

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Edward
Deacon
PCA
Texas

Someone told me this same thing the other day. I had never heard that before.

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Erick Bohndorf, Redeemer Presbyterian PCA
http://qayaqtraveler.blogspot.com/
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Here is what I have seen to be good and fitting: to eat, to drink and enjoy oneself in all one’s labor in which he toils under the sun during the few years of his life which God has given him; for this is his reward. Ecclesiastes

I went with number three, but number two runs a close second (Ha!). Number one, meh, sounds too much like stories of Hercules and the like.

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Johnathan Tate
Cornerstone Presbyterian Church (OPC), Arden, NC

Husband of one, father of 3 (1 in-utero); Time's "Man of the Year" 2006

That would be my guess.

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Rich Brown
Deacon/Webmaster
Aisquith PCA
Parkville, MD

They were Decepticons, fighting an ancient battle with their Transformer enemies, the Autobots, an war whose battlefield was occasionally the planet earth.

Transformers - More Than Meets The Eye

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Zac Nelson
Melb, Australia
Anglican

I can't remember where I first ran across the theory, but it made sense to me, and if you look at the distributions, one of the first overlaps would have been in the middle east.

If anyone here can come up with scriptural or scientific evidence to the contrary, I'm willing to be corrected. But for now (and a number of years in the past) that has been my theory on the subject.

I thought everyone knew that they were the offspring of Adam and Lilith....

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Ruben
Moderator
F.P.C.I.
Indiana

Vanities and disguises have covered us, and thereby we are naked; licenciousness hath inflam'd us, and thereby we are frozen; voluptuousness hath fed us, and thereby we are sterved, the fancies and traditions of men have taught and instructed us, and thereby we are ignorant.
John Donne

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Calvinistas Conversando
Teología en Mexico
The Howling Wilderness

That is hysterical!!

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Jennifer Flummerfelt
layman, P.C.A.
Wichita, KS

"Man's chief end is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever."

Happily Married to KS_Presby as of September 12, 2009

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James Helbert, Wytheville, VA
Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCUS
TheBibleAlone.com / The Edinburgh Inn
"Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” - Zechariah 3:2

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The end of verse 4 clarifies who they were, the "mighty ones of old, men of renown", in other words, they were the heroes and great leaders, and most likely the tyrants. The translation "giants" is highly speculative. Truth is no one really knows what Nephilim means anymore other than by comparing them to the mighty Canaanite warriors in Numbers. They are not necessarily mixed offspring. There's two things going on in the passage. One is the apostacy of Seth's line in joining the rest of the unbelieving world in prefering outward beauty in a wife rather than faithfulness to God, the other is exalting human strength rather than God. It's the same problem Israel would have later in intermarrying with unbelievers and exalting their mighty men rather than trusting the Lord. Same problem the Church has today....

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Patrick
MDiv, RTS Jackson
Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
"Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

Therein lies the greatest suggestion that one may be so. Every major culture throughout history has told the same legend of spirit beings who mated with human woman and produced monstrous offspring. Hercules and the Titans imprisoned in Tarturus is one, in Persia there are the stories of the Jinn and the Watchers (Genies), the story of Prometheus, the Sumerians had the ANNUKAKI, the Succubi, the Incubi, and so on.

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Bob Vigneault C.O.L, L.E., G.E, Dr.O.P., O.U.T.
The Heartbeat of Heaven (blog)
Deacon/Christ Presbyterian Church, Janesville, WI OPC www.christ-opc.org

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Either space aliens or the line of cain, but I'm not sure which...

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Brad
Deacon
Redeemer Church
Jackson, MS

Either two or three is acceptable.

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Joe
Member
Providence Reformed Baptist Chuch, Toledo Ohio
2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689

And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live. Ezk 16:6

Could that not be just men making gods in their own image to justify their own sin?

Sure it could be, but that would be like saying that the Genesis Flood explains the re-biginning of mankind but the Enuma Elish was just trying to justify men wrestling with their own sins.

Personally, I believe the ancient myth texts (Book of Enoch, The Watchers) and pseudopigrapha are pointing toward Genesis 6,

Hey Everyone!

There was actually a dissertation written on this topic here at Trinity by a student named Ken Way. I found his argumentation very convincing.

First of all, I don't believe Nephilim is a proper name. Also, I will have to disagree with Puritan Sailor that The translation "giants" is highly speculative. For example, in Numbers 13:33, Nephilim are clearly from the bene 'anaq, who are clearly giants.

However, Way suggests that this might be too restrictive. In other words, while some of the Nephilim [i.e., the ones in the land of Canaan] may have been giants, there is nothing to say that there may not have been other nephilim that were not giants.

Way's solution is to consider terms like nephilim and 'anaq[im] to be pajoritive in character. Nephilim, as understood from its root, would have the meaning "fallen ones." 'anaq would literally mean something like "neck piece" or "neck" [c.f. also rapha'im meaning "dead spirits"]. This also fits the context of Genesis 6, as the whole point is to show the depth of depravity to which the world has fallen. Hence, the term would be ironic considering the fact that they are as wicked as the rest of the people, and yet, are men of renoun.

Hence, I would agree with Way's conclusions that nephilim can refer to any great hero who is in rebellion against God, and may or may not refer to giants.

God Bless,
Adam

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Adam
Orthodox Presbyterian Church
Deerfield, Illinois
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School Student

I have it on good intel that the Nephilim were ancient Ninjas.

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Mark Maney
Edmonton Chinese Baptist Church
Master of Theological Studies
Master of Arts (Cross Cultural)
Trinity Western University, ACTS Seminaries
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Aren't all of mankind descendant of Adam and Eve?

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R. Martin Snyder
1689er
http://www.puritanboard.com/blogs/puritancovenanter/

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That is the best answers of all...

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Aaron Josh Wright
Deerbrook Baptist Church, Humble Tx
New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary

Hey guys, don't mean to jump in but I wanted to comment on what Bawb said.

I'm not sure that it is a legitimate hermeneutic to superimpose ancient pagan mythologies onto the Biblical texts as proof for a particular interpretation. While certain broad similarities may exist I am very uncomfortable trying to use those in forming a Christian interpretation of what the Bible is really saying. The reality is that the whole angels breeding with humans view was not very popular with protestants until recently. Moreover, modern movies like the prophecy with Christopher Walken as well as a slew of bad A&E documentaries have used pop culture to reinforce what was generally a minority viewpoint.

Along with this is the fact that the demon-spawn interpretation comes right out of the blue exegetically. There is nothing in the immediate context to suggest that demons were taking wives. The only immediate reference point for "sons of God" in the preceding 5 chapters is the line of Seth, who called upon the name of the Lord. If you start reading from the beginning, where would you get the idea of demons from? There have been men who called on the LORD and walked with him, and there have been men who exalted their own strength and tyranny (i.e. Cain and Lamech). The overall picture is mankind descending into greater wickedness, and the visible church is joining right in. Demons just don't fit with the context.

I would agree with Way's conclusion too.

If you want to call them giants based upon the sons of Anak text, fine. I just want to be clear that they are not some superhuman hybrids, but part of the human race just like the rest of us, and the term Nephilim doesn't necessitate that they be giants. Men of large stature would naturally be more feared on the battlefield and no doubt would have become men of renown, just like King Saul in his prime, and just like many today.

Can't we really just agree that it's God's covenant people commiting idolatry and intermarrying with people who aren't God's people? (Israel's sin throughout scripture) Isn't it really that simple? At least that's what I was taught when I first became reformed - that it's about believers and unbelievers - one more example of the Antithesis. I'm not saying we shouldn't wrestle with difficult or challenging passages of scripture, but I think we can possibly get into trouble when we try to read anything different than that in this passage. Not accusing, btw just seeking dialogue and asking.