They Died in the Wilderness

The Author of my Faith · #1 (**permalink**) 08-26-2009, 07:48 PM

Trying to understand this in light of Reformed Theology.

For those who did not enter the promised land, were most of them unbelievers?

And was there a remnant within Israel that consisted of believers?

1 Corinthians 10 and Hebrews 4 speak about the fact that they could not enter because of unbelief.

Numbers 14:22-24 states that the only ones who came out of Egypt to enter were Caleb and Joshua because they had a different spirit. They alone with the new generation entered the land. Where those who died in the wilderness not part of the elect?

Please let me know your thoughts.

***Contra_Mundum*** · #2 (**permalink**) 08-26-2009, 09:53 PM

There are a few possibilities.

1) practically everyone over 20--except Moses, etc., was a reprobate.

2) there were a good percentage of reprobates, probably a majority (although I wouldn't want to totally commit to this +51% idea) as in every generation seemed to be--a people marked by a general failure to live up to God's demands.

3) most of them were elect, they just failed to get in, as Moses himself failed.

I think #2 is most probable.

The Author of my Faith · #3 (**permalink**) 08-26-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contra_Mundum

There are a few possibilities.

1) practically everyone over 20--except Moses, etc., was a reprobate.

2) there were a good percentage of reprobates, probably a majority (although I wouldn't want to totally commit to this +51% idea) as in every generation seemed to be--a people marked by a general failure to live up to God's demands.

3) most of them were elect, they just failed to get in, as Moses himself failed.

I think #2 is most probable.

Thanks Bruce. From what I have read I feel that most were reprobate as well and that there was a remnant that God preserved. But then again i could be wrong

rbcbob · #4 (**permalink**) 08-27-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Author of my Faith

Trying to understand this in light of Reformed Theology.

For those who did not enter the promised land, were most of them unbelievers?

And was there a remnant within Israel that consisted of believers?

1 Corinthians 10 and Hebrews 4 speak about the fact that they could not enter because of unbelief.

Numbers 14:22-24 states that the only ones who came out of Egypt to enter were Caleb and Joshua because they had a different spirit. They alone with the new generation entered the land. Where those who died in the wilderness not part of the elect?

Please let me know your thoughts.

This might be helpful:

Romans 9:1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. 6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called." 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

The Author of my Faith · #5 (**permalink**) 08-27-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbcbob

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Author of my Faith

Trying to understand this in light of Reformed Theology.

For those who did not enter the promised land, were most of them unbelievers?

And was there a remnant within Israel that consisted of believers?

1 Corinthians 10 and Hebrews 4 speak about the fact that they could not enter because of unbelief.

Numbers 14:22-24 states that the only ones who came out of Egypt to enter were Caleb and Joshua because they had a different spirit. They alone with the new generation entered the land. Where those who died in the wilderness not part of the elect?

Please let me know your thoughts.

This might be helpful:

Romans 9:1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. 6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called." 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

That is the exact verse I showed my friend. Thanks