A helpful resource,

link

'As for bodily gestures customarily observed in praying, such as kneeling...they are exercises whereby we try to rise to a greater reverence for God.' John Calvin

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J. M. - Baptist - Ontario, Canada - Feileadh Mor

One more time!

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J. M. - Baptist - Ontario, Canada - Feileadh Mor

I remember a discussion of this a few years ago, maybe on the Warfield list. Someone linked an old article that asserted that sitting to pray in gathered worship was one of Finney's "New Measures" and that kneeling or standing were more appropriate.

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Chris Poe
Mandeville, LA

"There are the foolish fanatics always to be found in such a movement and always discrediting it--the lunatic fringe in all reform movements." Theodore Roosevelt

JM:

I see you originally posted this in January, and did not get much responce. It was before I joined the PB, so thank you for "bumping" it and calling it to our attention.

I believe there are only three biblical postures for prayer.
1. Standing
2. Kneeling
3. Laying prostrate in the dust.

Each of these postures says something about our view of God and our view of self. Standing recognizes that God is our King. We stand in the presence of His majesty. Kneeling shows that he come before Him as unworthy beggars to ask for His mercy. Laying prostrate before Him shows our utter dependance upon Him.

While some may believe that it is okay to sit while praying, I believe that posture also says something about our veiw of God. And what it indicates is our casual and perhaps even lax attitude toward a Sovereign God.

In this "What a Friend We Have In Jesus" age we are prone to presume that we may sit with God, as we would sit around a table. That He is our buddy, our friend and thus we become all too casual in our approach to the Throne of Grace.

We are bidden to come "boldly" to His throne, but we must never come presumptuously!

Just a thought.

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Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
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"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

What if you're driving and there is need to pray? If you're lying in bed, overcome with sorrow and grief, is it okay to pray? Perhaps we are going to come up with exceptions for praying in dire circumstances. We can overreact to the lack of reverence in approaching God and place undo emphasis on mode rather than substance. Standing, kneeling or laying prostrate may be precedent in scripture, but I'm not about to tell someone they can't pray in their car on the way to work. Let's not strain gnats.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Visit the Eggus Blog

Sir:
Sorry. No need to strain Gnats or tell people they can't prayer in their cars. My comments about prayer posture (though I failed to state this previously) were with regard to posture in corporate worship.

As observed in the original post:
I do not believe we should sit in the pew while being led in corporate prayer, IMHO.

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Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

I'm in agreement with posture in corporate worship as a general rule. I suppose I get somewhat nervous when I read threads like this one. I've had struggles with the RPW and the Sabbath in the past, but I'm making progress!

Peace brother.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Visit the Eggus Blog

Oh, and it's not sir. Bill is fine. "Sir" is reserved for my father.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Visit the Eggus Blog

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Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

I think of old Jacob, who when he was dying raised himself out of bed and worshipped God leaning on the top of his staff. We are told he did this by faith; and certainly if we believe what the Bible reveals God to be then we will be conscientious to offer him not only an occasional thought but reverent action also. I remember an older gentleman saying once that if the younger generation does worship God you would hardly know it. If worship doesn't involve physical action then there is really no mark whereby to distinguish it from non-worship.

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Yours sincerely,


"Illum oportet crescere me autem minui."

Nice Calvin quote.

If we are to pray without ceasing or strive to then we will find ourselves praying in various circumstances. In the car was a great example. I like to pray in my truck on the way to work and often times after. Its nice to have that alone time to talk to the Lord. There are many instances which are fitting!

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Brian E
Attending Christ Reformed Baptist Church
Milwaukee, WI

I was going to mention that in Witsius's treatise on the Lord's Prayer:
Amazon.com: Sacred Dissertations on the Lords... had a whole chapter on gestures in prayer but looks like Bruce had already scooped it here.

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Chris Rhoades -33
Good Shepherd Presbyterian Church (PCA) Nashville, TN-Under Care

Vera theologia non theoretica, sed practica est; Finis siquidem eius agere est hoc est vitam vivere deiformem. - Martin Bucer
""True theology is not theoretical, but practical. The end of it is living, that is to live a godly life."

What you can say is that in the Bible we find three postures that are used for prayer. These are descriptive as opposed to prescriptive. We also find people standing for the reading of the Scriptures!

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Richard
CofE
UK

In light of the RPW, would we consider posture during prayer incidental or elemental to worship, or something else entirely?

Forgive my ignorance.

Posture would not be an element of worship. A circumstance of worship is something “common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed” (WCF i.6). By this is meant those things needful to facilitate the worship of God and/or those things that are to accompany the worship of God but do not, in and of themselves, formally constitute worship. I would then say that posture is an unregulated circumstance of worship.

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Richard
CofE
UK

Some American Presbyterian/Reformed churches do stand to read as well as to pray.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

We stand to read

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Richard
CofE
UK

Intersting; we sit to read, and to be truthful I think it would be easier to pay attention standing. I have not studied the issue much though.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

I think that posture is important but we need to avoid legalism. For example, I kneel for the sacrament and that is about as much as my knees can cope with owing to a rugby injury. Some kneel for most of the service but I find it too painful.

If one was to follow the BCP strictly, one would sit very little.

Ye that do truly and earnestly repent you of your sins, and are in love and charity with your neighbours, and intend to lead a new life, following the commandments of God, and walking from henceforth in his holy ways; Draw near with faith, and take this holy Sacrament to your comfort; and make your humble confession to Almighty God, meekly kneeling upon your knees.

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Richard
CofE
UK

We stand for the reading of the word, our pastoral prayer and our prayer of repentance. We sit during the preaching of the word.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Visit the Eggus Blog

We stand for prayer and sit for preaching and reading.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

We trust that you have repented of your rugby playing, Richard, but sometimes there are still consequences of sin to deal with.

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