My roommate and I were having an interesting conversation about nobility and celebrities last night and this was the choice quote.
Celebrities provide all of the downsides of noblility and none of the benefits.
My roommate and I were having an interesting conversation about nobility and celebrities last night and this was the choice quote.
Celebrities provide all of the downsides of noblility and none of the benefits.
Scott - Dallas, Texas - Faith OPC
"It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do." - Edmund Burke
That seems pretty accurate.
Daniel Franzen
Church Creek Presbyterian (PCA)
Charleston, SC
Case by case issue, society has expanded the umbrella it arches over "celebrity".
However men like Ronald reagan turned celebrity into useful platform for great public service.
As did Charleton Heston, Jimmy Stewart and many others.
We are rightfulyl weary of gossip and those that subject themselves to be objects of it, but by and large celebrities rue the day they obtained the status.
As is noted most were not noble before fame and are unfairly expected to be noble simply because they have public attention.
:detective:
Travis Speegle
Redeemer Presbyterian, PCA (Waco, Tx)
Pacific Cross Roads, PCA (Los Angeles, CA)
"When it comes to trustworthy theologians one can usually honor the rule of thumb that the deader the better."-Dr. John Hannah, DTS (of all places)
Out of interest what are the benefits of nobility?
Fraser,
Trinity Reformed Baptist Church
Hamilton, New Zealand.
:detective:
Travis Speegle
Redeemer Presbyterian, PCA (Waco, Tx)
Pacific Cross Roads, PCA (Los Angeles, CA)
"When it comes to trustworthy theologians one can usually honor the rule of thumb that the deader the better."-Dr. John Hannah, DTS (of all places)
I would think that in theory nobility would have a greater ability to produce and support the arts, literature, music, medical charities, etc. because they do not have a need to work to survive.
That was at least what happened in the past. For example, amost every piece of literature, history, poetry, etc. we have from the Classical Period (Greece and Rome) was produced by nobility.
Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog
"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)
armourbearer (01-28-2009), Backwoods Presbyterian (01-28-2009), Theoretical (01-28-2009)
Also worth noting is that the great Composers of the past all worked at the pleasure of a King or an Emperor or some type of nobility (or even an Archbishop).
Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
Ruling Elder Fairmount ARP Church
Pittsburgh, PA
"I am as happy as perhaps creation can make me. I enjoy all the necessaries and most of the conveniences of life. I have a peaceful study as a refuge from the hurries and noise of the world around me, the venerable dead are waiting in my library to entertain me..." --Samuel Davies
Deo Vindice
no·bil·i·ty (nō-bĭl'ĭ-tē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. no·bil·i·ties
A class of persons distinguished by high birth or rank and in Great Britain including dukes and duchesses, marquises and marchionesses, earls and countesses, viscounts and viscountesses, and barons and baronesses: "The old English nobility of office made way for the Norman nobility of faith and landed wealth" (Winston S. Churchill).
Noble rank or status: Congress may not grant titles of nobility.
The state or quality of being exalted in character.
[Middle English nobilite, the quality of being noble, from Old French, from Latin nōbilitās, from nōbilis, noble; see noble.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.If all the celebrities were truly noble, they could do a lot of good.ce·leb·ri·ty (sə-lěb'rĭ-tē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. ce·leb·ri·ties
A famous person.
Renown; fame.
[Middle English celebrite, fame, from Old French, from Latin celebritās, from celeber, celebr-, famous.]
ce·leb'ri·ty·hood' n.
Synonyms: These nouns refer to a widely known person: a social celebrity; the heroes of science; a theatrical luminary; a big name in sports; a notable of the concert stage; a personage in the field of philosophy.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27
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Martin - Reformed
Husband to the most godly, honorable and loyal wife Line
Searching for a Church
Webpage www.5solas.dk
Free Online Reformed Seminary - http://www.tnars.net
Soli Deo Gloria
soli Deo gloria!
~Nicholas~ Ordained Pastor
Member, Fulton PCA; GPTS Student
Christians are like snow covered dung; it is the purity of the covering which the Father sees. -Luther-
There is nothing more ugly than a Christian orthodoxy without understanding or without compassion.
-Francis Schaeffer-
In talking about nobility on this thread, Rev. Winzer made this point about some of their historical responsibilities. The arts have arguably been incredibly impoverished in the western world by the decline of patronage, in addition to the other things.
Every society has elites, and every type of elite has its own problems, but you won't get rid of elites. A member of a landed aristocracy (the nobility) can be "exalted" or "humble" just as any of us can be, whether we have $1,000 in the bank or $10,000,000 or are the richest person in the world.Diplomacy is hard work. Political machinery is alot like an air conditioner -- many people enjoy the cool environment and have no idea what is taking place beneath the cover.
Nothing about said individual requires or dictates that they opress the poor or that they do by their very existence. Otherwise in our society, Sam Walton and his family have inherently oppressed the poor by the very virtue of making their fortune off a chain of discount merchants that favors the lower incomes. (I don't want to hear about their business practices, this is an example).
I'm not saying nobility was perfect or even inherently a good idea, but I dispute the idea that it only brings a net loss to a nation with those institutions.
Scott - Dallas, Texas - Faith OPC
"It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do." - Edmund Burke
brianeschen (01-28-2009)
Jonathan,
No one is arguing that life (in a Fallen world) is fair.
But all the same, I'd rather pay Homer to wrote poetry that will last 3000+ years than to pay a complete buffoon like Manny Ramirez to hit a ball, or the latest thug to make three pointers, or Madonna to spout filth.
Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog
"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)
armourbearer (01-28-2009), Backwoods Presbyterian (01-28-2009), Ex Nihilo (01-28-2009), jaybird0827 (01-28-2009), Theoretical (01-28-2009)
Also, where would the early church have been if it weren't for some wealthy (elite, culturally, financially, and socially in some cases) members with large homes? Clearly there were problems of favoritism and the like that came from it.
However, due to the nature of sin, you still have the same potential for sin-caused problems in economically level societies as you do in stratfied ones. The problems look different, but there are still problems often at least as bad as the ones eliminated.
Scott - Dallas, Texas - Faith OPC
"It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do." - Edmund Burke
Martin - Reformed
Husband to the most godly, honorable and loyal wife Line
Searching for a Church
Webpage www.5solas.dk
Free Online Reformed Seminary - http://www.tnars.net
Soli Deo Gloria
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