I'm very interested in getting the personal opinions of PB members on this subject...

Most of us have family members and/or close friends who have different religious beliefs than ours.

My question is: How deviant can their beliefs be before you won't show up at a "big event" in their religious life?


For example, if you're a baptist and you have a friend who is a presbyterian, and your presbyterian friend has a baby and then invites you to the baptism of that child, would you attend in order to show support to your friend?

What about if you have a family member who is Roman Catholic and they have a child who is to be baptized or perhaps receive first communion... and they invite you... would you attend as a show of familial love and support?

What if you have a family member who is Mormon and their boy is to be baptized... do you attend to show support?

Or what if you've got a Jewish friend and they invite you an important religious observance such as circumcision or something? Do you attend to show support to your family?

How much deviance will you tolerate before you will not show up to encourage and enhance the joy of your family member or friend?

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Ben
Chaplain, US Army
Ft. Riley, KS
TE Ohio Valley Presbytery, PCA

If they're not a Presbyterian, the only important event you need to attend for them is one involving gasoline and wood.

(totally kidding Mormons.)

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Andrew DeShazo
Husband of Kathryn
Father of Phillip-Giles B. DeShazo
Deacon
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"From out of the depth of unbroken Infinfity arose the Question, "Who am I?" And to that Question there is the answer, "I am God!" -Meher Baba, died 1969.

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Christ, died 33 AD, ressurected three days later.

I have relatives who are in the Greek Orthodox church. I have attended their weddings to show love and respect for the family members. I have an uncle, on the other hand, an evangelical Christian minister, who will not attend because of the perverted version of Christianity exhibited there. I chose to draw the line differently than he did. I haven't regretted it. In this case, I do not really see my attendance as endorsing their particular beliefs.

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Jim
1689 LBCF
Independent Bible Church
North Texas, USA

I had that same situation happen to me a couple of months ago when I attended the confirmation service for my nephew. It was in a ELCA church, the homily/sermon was entitled "Faith Wins" which not once (if memory serves) was Christ ever mentioned. Also, they had communion which I could have partaken in but did not due to the Lutheran belief of Consubstaniation (spl).

I would be as gracious as possible but make sure they understand your theological convictions and the reservations about that is happening. I know in some contexts that may mean not attending all together. For example, if a friend wanted me to attend a gay marriage I would have to decline.

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Chris Bryant
Attending Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA), McKinney, TX
Member of Christ Presbyterian Church (PCA), Tulsa, OK
M.A.R., WTS/Redeemer Seminary, Dallas, TX (in progress)

The question reminds me of this verse:

Matthew 10:34-39

May not so applicable with baptism between Presbyterians and Baptists but defintely with heathens, Mormons and Catholics.
Good question. It may be time to share about the truth of God's Word regarding the particular deviance.

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John
Member
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net

Good questions.

First impressions below, keeping in mind more information could change each situation.

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Scott
PCA
North Carolina


"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)"
Hebrews 10:23

Mormon or JW or similar. I HAVE attended mass with her but didn't partake of the sacrament of course. Also, I wouldn't make it a habit...I don't live close by and only see her every few years.


YES


YES

NOPE

YES but only out of curiosity.

I guess it varies.

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Robert
Lay Person
PCA
West Virginia
Go share your faith

The Larger catechism's understanding of the 2nd commandment seems germane here:

The duties required in the second commandment are, the receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God has instituted in his Word; particularly prayer and thanksgiving in the name of Christ; the reading, preaching, and hearing of the Word; the administration and receiving of the sacraments; church government and discipline; the ministry and maintenance thereof; religious fasting; swearing by the name of God, and vowing unto him: as also the disapproving, detesting, opposing, all false worship; and, according to each one's place and calling, removing it, and all monuments of idolatry.

How one can fulfill this command while attending on false worship seems dubious to me at best.

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Rev. Adam King
Minister in the RPCNA
Pastor,Trinity Reformed Church
Wichita, KS

If a Catholic event was on a Sunday, I would probably skip it, because I would not want to be there on the Lord's Day. If it was a wedding, funeral, and possibly even first communion, held on another day, I would attend, because even though there is mass during the ceremonies, I don't feel that it pertains to me and I'm not afraid of their false god.

If it was a Baptist being baptized I'd go, even on the Lord's Day, because baptism is good.

I would skip anything religiously Mormon, but suppose I'd go to a wedding. (Again, I'm not afraid of their false god.)

I would maybe/probably go to a Jewish thing.

In any of the false religion cases I would not try to worship with the others. I would not sing or bow or whatever with them.

This question made me feel very narrow minded because I have no [actively] Jewish or Mormon friends!

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Shalom,
jessi
PCA
Steelers fan exiled to Virginia


“Whatever your heart clings to and confides in, that is really your God.”
Martin Luther

A question to those of you who would possibly attend a Jewish religious event to show support and yet you'd definitely not attend a Mormon event: What's the reason for the difference?

-----Added 9/3/2009 at 01:28:06 EST-----

We have a few JWs, as well as a handful of Roman Catholics, in the extended family.

In our friend network are numerous RCs, a few Eastern Orthodox, several Mormons, a few Jews, and a whole host of non-practicing southernized "Christians."

Ben, I have faced every one of the options that you listed.

My rule is to attend ANY event held by a trinitarian church. Even RCC or Orthodox. And to NEVER attend any pagan ritual, Morman or Jewish. IF invited by family or friend. I do or do not join in, or join in to a lesser extent depending on the church. I.e. I would never take the mass, but I will sit and stand as appropriate, etc.

Now I would attend a Morman, Jewish or Islamic (that one is likely this fall) sevice as an observer, after informing the celebrant/priest/rabbi that I was attending for the purpose of study. But not ever for a family event.

This may seem iconsistent to some, but it makes sense to me.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

Ha ha! I think that reply might belong in the theonomy forum.

-----Added 9/3/2009 at 01:53:09 EST-----

It makes perfect sense to me. It sounds like my policy, too.

Although, if you were EP and you went to a Jewish event and they sang the Psalms and you refused to participate, this would be ironic.

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Ha, I would love to sing Psalms at a Jewish event, especially Psalms 2, 22, 110, etc...

What about liberal "evangelical" churches? Would you go to Jimmy Carter's church along with your admiring parents, or to their own, which would welcome him with open arms as a guest preacher, because they too equate the gospel with a social agenda that includes "liberating" women from their lowly unordained positions? I once sat in such a church on the annual "Women's Day," when the guest preacher and all other participants in the service were, of course, women. I didn't do it knowingly, but now I attend another church whenever I'm in town, because who knows what's next (that was awful enough). What makes it harder is that liberal Baptists are such nice people.

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Laura
member of Geneva OPC, Woodstock, GA
"Christ has done great things for his people, and he has suffered great things for his people, and he has purchased great things for his people, and he has prepared great things for his people; yet many of his own dear people are so taken up with their own hearts, and with their own duties and graces, that Christ is little eyed by them or minded by them! This is the great reason why so many Christians, who will certainly go to heaven—do walk in darkness, and lie down in sorrow." - Thomas Brooks

Those heathens Yes I would go

Yes otherwise I wouldn't go anywhere my whole extended family is RCC

No

Sure even if just out of curiosity

Not sure

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Doug
Baptist
Hemet, Ca
Old Time Radio Podcast

Scripture tells us to disassociate ourselves with anyone who calls themselves a brother and walks disorderly. Idolatry fits the disorderly category. I would have less of a problem with attending a Moslem wedding than a RC wedding. The person who would invite me to a Moslem wedding, knows in advance that we are different. I would also make it clear that I would observe, but not participate in, their prayer & rites. The RC (and some JW & Mormons), in their mind (for the most part) think we are brothers. I would have to not attend due to conscience on this one.

I have boycotted RC baptisms because I know that I would be with idolaters who call themselves brothers. I would attend a circumcision or bar-mitzvah, but would inevitably irk several people when conversation drifts to what I think about the Covenants & Messiah, knowing that they consider me goyim.

I would also boycott a same sex wedding. This just goes against nature - period.

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Rich Koster
1689'er
Browns Mills NJ USA
Often Goofy Reformed Eccentric
Romans 7:14-25

I "booked" out of my father's RC funeral after about 30 seconds of it because of the "baptismal regeneration" talk at it before they even closed the casket. To have stayed would have been an insult to the Lord Who saved me out of Roman Catholicism and gave me the grace to know what idolatry and blasphemy a mass is.

I attended a Jewish bris because my boss was the baby's grandfather and everyone else in the office was going. It was a social gathering at the boss's home with a brief religious ceremony (presided over by a mohel, not a rabbi) accompanying it; its purpose was to welcome the little guy into the world and give him his name. His mother and I were friends. I didn't observe the actual bris and neither did my boss (he ran upstairs when the, uh, implements came out). The whole thing was just kind of nice.

As to what is tolerable, I would not tolerate anything that would negatively affect my witness to the real Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. If I feel that by participating or attending something, I'm causing Him offense or denigrating the fact of my being a blood-bought child of His in any way, I don't go. Have taken heat for it, but couldn't care less about the disapproval of family or friends. They get over it and if they don't, so what?

Margaret

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Margaret
Free Church of Scotland [Continuing]
Michigan

For Mormon big events we're all off the hook - anything inside their temple is off limits to non-Mormons, including weddings.

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Catherine
PCA
Waldorf, MD

Whoever gives thought to the word will discover good,
and blessed is he who trusts in the Lord.
Proverbs 16:20 ESV

I would go to all of them. It might be the only chance I have to engage them in discourse.

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Jeremy
PCA
Indiana

Interesting. I've been invited to a number of Mormon weddings that took place in LDS "churches." I've also been invited to Mormon baptisms... the most recent being last weekend.

That's what I thought, too; strange that Ben's been invited to baptisms and weddings. They do invite members of the community to tour a new temple before it is dedicated, or consecrated, or whatever they call it. The OPC pastor in Salt Lake City was accidentally invited to a VIP event at one such tour, and he went (they eventually figured out in talking with him that he wasn't supposed to be there, but they were still nice!). I think either they roll out a carpet over the "sacred" floor or they make you wear booties over your Gentile shoes---or both. A (Christian) friend of a friend had his bootie fall off while he was walking through on a tour; I'm not sure if they just pretended not to see it or what.

I do attend such events if its for a close friend or family member. (Although I've never been invited a Mormon or JW event) I view it as a way to engage with and discuss their beliefs and practices. I've had a number of good conversations come out of events such as these. I don't "participate" in any type of worship except to sit and stand as appropriate.

I can completely understand why some would feel convicted to not attend these events. It is a fine line and one has to be careful that one does not put on the appearance of condoning what is going on. Often after events like these though, the friend or family member will approach you and say, "So what did you think?" which is a great opening to a good conversation about the gospel.

Edit: I should say that I probably wouldn't go to a same sex marriage/commitment ceremony. I would politely decline and hopefully that could start a conversation.

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Kathleen M
nondenominational
Montana

Oh, my mistake about the weddings then! I had been told by an LDS friend that *most* LDS wedding take place at a temple - that's their ideal, because then they consider it to be an eternally binding ceremony. I didn't realize it was at all common to have them outside the temple.

I go to RC baptisms and weddings often, since my husband and I were both raised RC and most of our families are still RC, it comes up often. I feel like it would be offensive to my loved ones to refuse to go. Friends and family who are RC, Pentecostal, and Baptist have all come to my kids' baptisms. Its been a springboard for some lively discussions! I wouldn't go to a same sex commitment ceremony, that would be over the line for me.

I have attended a funeral mass for a co-worker, and attended mass with my in-laws. All before I was ordained a deacon. I'm not sure that I should do either now, and I won't really argue with anyone who says I shouldn't have done it then.

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Edward
Deacon
PCA
Texas

I have attended RC funeral masses and weddings and would do so again. I doubt I would attend a baptism because it will probably take place on the Lord's Day and I wouldn't get to my own church.
I was invited, but did not attend, a friends baptism into the Jehovah's Witnesses. The reason being that they are heretical. Ditto for the Mormons.
I have attended worship at the Jewish synagogue and Islamic mosque and would do so again for a specific event. I have been to a Hindu temple and have no desire to go back.

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Donnie MacLeod
Crossroads Presbyterian Fellowship (PCA), Maplewood, MO
MDiv Student Covenant Theological Seminary

You filled my heart with greater joy
than others may have found
As they rejoiced at harvest time,
when grain and wine abound.Ps 4:7, Sing Psalms 2003

Been thinking about this question......very good one! It's hard for me to know. I think about that Scripture where Paul says not to converse with those who say they are apart of the Body of Christ but who are practicing sin... not meaning those of the world bc one would have to outside of the world. So although it would be hard for me to go to a gay marriage and really really wouldn't want to, should I since they are not proclaiming to be apart of the Body of Christ?

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sarah
WI
OPC
My Pastor's Sermons: Mark Jenkins...he's awesome!!!

Does it make a hill of beans difference if our relationship with that person, with all the prior conversations, including conversation about the particular event, is such that it is crystal clear to all that you profoundly disagree with their religious views, but you love them and want to be a part of an event that is significant to them?

Is there a difference between attending an event at a deviant place of worship as an observer and as a participant? Or if we show up at all are we automatically, inherently and implicitly guilty of encouraging deviant/false worship?

I would solve that problem by bringing along a pocketful of tracts. If they don't mind me passing them out, I don't see why I shouldn't be there.

On a more serious note--to show support of what? Their wrong views? I wouldn't attend to support their wrong views, no. I might attend just because I'm their friend.

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Jonathan
Audio Engineer
Reformed Anabaptist
Ohio

Moroni's magical glasses of proper interpretation:

This might be a hard concept for some to understand... Sometimes we have relationships with real people, not just internet people. Those real people sometimes form an emotional attachment with us and we want to be a part of their lives, to share the experiences that make them happy, etc. So when I say ,"Show support to them," I refer to one person acting selflessly to help bring increased joy, happiness, contentment, etc., to someone else who means something to that person, regardless of what they believe.

Oh... you're right, I don't know what that is.





Kidding... I'm kidding.

If I show up at a Mosque and sit in the back to not be a disruption and do not "go through the motions" but just sit and observe, I see it as very different.

I would not go to a RC mass because they mock Christ by " sacrificing afresh" . They also claim to be the "ONLY source of salvation". Christ alone is the source of salvation.

SolaScriptura;


yes, when I attended the Baptist church, I went to the Presbyterian Church for Baptism's and now going to a Presbyterian Church I would go to a friends Baptism in the Baptist church..

When my niece was Baptized in the Catholic church I went, but I did not attend her first Communion. And even before I went to her Baptism he and I talked for a long time about our differences in beliefs concerning it. He no longer attends the RCC..

I would not

I doubt I would go..

If they have a family/friends gathering AFTER the event I may go..but I'm not sure I would go to the "religious" event itself..

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Bobbi Clark
Covenant Member
Pinewood Pres. (PCA) Middleburg

When I kept Silent, My bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. Psalm 32:3