This is an amazing video.

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Steven J. Carr (Sven)
http://beholdingthebeauty.blogspot.com/
Eagan, MN
PCA
"Weak is the effort of my heart / And cold my warmest thought / But when I see thee as thou art / I'll praise thee as I ought."--John Newton
Trophy Wife/Arm Candy: Crystal Ann Children: Steven Jr. and Hannah Grace

That's old news here...

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Ben
Chaplain, US Army
Ft. Riley, KS
TE Ohio Valley Presbytery, PCA

Sorry for posting old news. I tried to check to see if this had been posted before. Oh well.

So what are we going to do stop the spread of Islam? Especially (1) if Muslims outright reject the Gospel and (2) if they are intent on being hostile. I don't want Dearborn, MI to be typical of the U.S. someday.

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Dewey D
Reformed Heritage Church (Independent at the moment)
San Fransicko, CA

The only effective solution to the spread of Islam is preaching the Gospel in love, and living in such a way that reflects the glorious grace of God that we have been made partakers of through the Gospel.

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Dan Dorman
Member of Pilgrim OPC in my hometown-Bangor, Maine
Currently attending Christ the King OPC in Longview, Texas, where I am a college student

“The happiness of the creature consists in rejoicing in God, by which also God is magnified and exalted” -Jonathan Edwards
What is meant by "Christian Hedonism"?

I don't think it is the only solution, though it is the most ideal. We need a back up plan just in case we find ourselves on the defensive (i.e. for freedom or even for our lives).

If worst comes to worst, we should drive them out of the land.

If anybody practices aggression against us or our family unjustly we can, may, and ought to defend ourselves. It doesn't matter if they're Muslim, Buddhist, etc. What they are is utterly irrelevant as to what we may do in self defense, otherwise we must embrace the converse idea that crimes should somehow be more punishable because we attach the label hate crimes on to acts. But our self defense certainly shouldn't be under the banner of corporate Christianity vs. ______ group (although it ought to be because we seek to practice and uphold the 6th Commandment).

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCGA
Facebook - The Calvinist Vent
Board Rules - Signature Rules - Suggestion Box

It is God that multiplies our sorrows.... God, as a righteous Judge, does it, which ought to silence us under all our sorrows; as many as they are, we have deserved them all, and more: nay, God, as a tender Father, does it for our necessary correction, that we may be humbled for sin, and weaned from the world by all our sorrows; and the good we get by them, with the comfort we have under them, will abundantly balance our sorrows, how greatly soever they are multiplied. - Matthew Henry

I never saw this video before, so thanks for sharing! Dearborn is actually where Tim and Anna Phillips went to do outreach among Muslims! Praise God that they were able to go there!

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Yvonne
Reformed Presbyterian
Currently seeking a Church

"A man's most glorious actions will at last be found to be but glorious sins, if he hath made himself, and not the glory of God, the end of those actions." -T. Brooks

I do not think we as Christians should be militant; that is the role of are own government. The only way for us to combat this problem is to continue with the normal means of government and by doing what God has ordained us to do through prayer and proclamation.

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David Jolley
Currently SBC, may change
Confessions: 1680-SLBCF/ 2000-BFAM
Escondido, CA

Is it just me, or did the main guy doing the video exaggerate a few things? I mean, it is clear that the Muslims were being too oppressive in regards to the cameras, but I'm not sure it was appropriate to call it "assault."

In any case, I can imagine this occurring on an amplified level (if Muslims were to gain more power), in which case the video very accurately represents the dangers of Sharia Law, even if in seed form.

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Ben Maas. . . . .Facebook
In college, attending First Presbyterian Church (PCUSA), Ada, OH, and
Belle Center Reformed Presbyterian Church (RPCNA), Belle Center, OH
When at home, attending Covenant Presbyterian Church (OPC), Mansfield, OH

“Prayer is as natural an expression of faith as breathing is of life.”
-Jonathan Edwards-

I agree when it comes to self defense, but can we stop this situation before it comes to this? In this situation, it is possible that Islam is spreading (growing) and could eventually lead to Christians being oppressed. I want to know if we can avert this worst case scenario from happening. Saying that we will preach the Gospel and let God work in their hearts is not a sufficient answer. It is absolutely the first step we take, but shouldn't be the last.

I saw this on Jihad Watch. Check it out, interesting stuff... This isn't really an example of Sharia; it is just poorly trained/ill-informed security guards, overstepping their boundaries.

It is reasonable to assume that not everyone who reads these boards (even the private forums) is your friend. Be careful what you write.

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Matt
Reformed Baptist
Christ Community Church

Now we are getting somewhere: the government. How should our government get involved? Should Christians vote for a policy that restricts freedom of religion?

I strictly want to be proactive and not reactive.

Sorry, Lee, I just don't go for the Pre-emptive strike mentality. Some may trust in horses, and some in chariots, but we will trust in the Name of the Lord our God. As Christians we are not to be pacifists, but we certainly aren't to be aggressors. We are not the Children of Israel wherein God has given direct commands to go and drive out certain peoples, etc. And America is certainly not Israel to claim that responsibility. Wars and battles should be ones of defense not pre-emptory. We have no idea if it's going "come to this." We do know, however, that the Lord God is reigning and ruling and that He holds in derision those nations and people who "plot a vain thing." He may even move some of them to "Kiss the Son, lest He be angry." He may not. I see neither Paul, nor Peter, nor Jesus - all under oppressive rule or in persecutorial circumstances - advocating aggression against said persecutors. Rather, we are told love our enemy and pray for those who persecute us. The one exception being, IMHO, self-defense against those who would seek to unjustly hurt us or our families . . . in defense. Not pre-emptive strikes.

Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Put some of this in bold so that I am not accused of being a pacifist.

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John Lanier
Elder in Training
Reformed Baptist Church
Topeka, KS

In no way do I want to pre-emptively strike anyone. I am merely trying to stimulate thinking because all I am getting is "preach the Gospel" and that's it. God may have other means and intentions.

To say that Christians are to be on the defensive is wrong. Sorry, but I ain't one to wait for the first punch. That being said, I want to explore ways of preventing violence before it comes to my back yard. Please do not misread me, I'm not looking for a fight. I want to have peace with all men.

Perhaps a good distinction to make might be between pursuing non-violent political options that would remove the plausibility of Sharia Law, and personally driving Muslim peoples outside America?

If I am not mistaken, Dewey seems to be striving for something more similar to the former than the latter. This is proactive, but not unbiblically violent.

Got no problem with that, nor should any Christian. I think the reaction to folks "Preach the Gospel" response is a bit much, because all they mean to say is that's the only way to have a foundational change in society. I don't think folks are saying that all we must do is preach the Gospel. I don't believe they're saying let's not get involved politically, etc. I, for one, would like to have the privilege to vote for a godly Civil Magistrate, but they're not running.

I think we also need to be careful that we don’t go over board in focusing on the political and negate our responsibility to do evangelism. A balance must be struck, and is one lacking in many of our churches. One of the reason why many "godly Civil Magistrate" is because the church is not doing it's job to proclaim God truth to them and afterwards disciple them, including if issues come up perform church discpline in some form or another.