Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Fair enough, we will just have to agree to differ on this one (not to mention the fact that it is 4 am over here )

Originally Posted by PuritanCovenanter

Yeah, I agree. I was done also. If you had one more argument I wasn't going to respond. LOL

Goodnight brother,

Love ya,
Randy

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Fair enough, we will just have to agree to differ on this one (not to mention the fact that it is 4 am over here )

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

Daniel:

Do you have any rc's in your family or friends? Have you ever had a choice to actually give an opinion on this thread? I am just asking here Daniel.

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Yes, I have a few relatives who are RCs. They have never even asked me to attend their weddings, Christenings etc, as they know I would refuse.

Originally Posted by Presbyterian Deacon

I struggle with this issue. I have attended both weddings and funerals at Papist sites ( I refuse to use the word church in connection with them). I view such times of attendance as important to "reaching out and supporting" friends and loved ones.

It is not a supporting of their false religion, but hopefully a means of encouraging and supporting them from the side of truth,

LIkewise, I do not kneel or in any way participate. But alway make sure to speak with those who I am "there for" and try to impart some word of truth.

I do not, in any way view my presence there as "worship."

Originally Posted by Backwoods Presbyterian

The 1903 American WCF has also deleted the "synagogues of Satan" and the language in ch. 25 of the Papal Anti-Christ.

Originally Posted by A5pointer

I hear this, but have suggested that ignorance of this does not equal "worship of idols" for the participants. The thread continues to argue whether Catholics should be evangelized in their context but continues to miss the question. Is the mass the worship of idols? As a continuing question are we seeing the orthodox gatherings in the same light as they include icons. I still think it is wrong to dismiss these groups as engaging only in "idol worship". Wow sure feels lonely on the PB to stand alone on the question. Yikes.

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

I cannot disagree with the charge of idolatry (after all, doesn't just about every sin reduce to idolatry in the end?), and voted "yes" in conformity to the Reformed confessional affirmations. However, I doubt that the average Catholic sees their sacramental observance as anything other than the worship of the triune God in a way that has historical continuity with the church all the way back to the first century. Wrong? Absoloutely!

My personal preference for describing the mass is to call it the rankest form of blasphemy in that it denies the finished work of Christ, subjecting him (in their view) to a continual sacrifice and so blaspheming Christ and his atonement. Idolatry is such a general evil, encompassing practically any turning from God for any reason, blasphemy describes a bit more specifically the problem IMO.

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

What do you mean by a 'few?" Well then your reputation preceedes you in the matter with them honestly. Could it be you are as polemical with family as you are on here at times?

Originally Posted by A5pointer

Hey, I am back. This thread if read carefully wanders off target. Much has been rightly said about the errors of theology in the mass. It is universally agreed here that the mass in it's theology is wrong, badly wrong, dishonoring to Christ and his work and even despicable. But the question begs does all this necessarily equal "idol worship" intrinsically? I have been painted into a corner as if I am defending RC practice and theology. I am merely suggesting that to equate the mass to idol worship is a stretch. As the lone dissenter I thank those who have shown concern about charitable conversation but I am fine with it. I respect the opinions of those expressed and the fervency that may come thru as harsh. If I may refer to the question of whether the mass should be avoided by us. If the mass in fact is biblical idol worship, I suggest then that it is forbidden by Paul to attend. He says that even though Idols are not real that worship of demons is in fact occurring at said cultic events.

I have suggested that Idol worship would require some extent of mental awareness or volition. Maybe this would be a valuable part of the conversation. I put forward this again to suggest validity to this opinion.

17 "If you will not," said Naaman, "please let me, your servant, be given as much earth as a pair of mules can carry, for your servant will never again make burnt offerings and sacrifices to any other god but the LORD. 18 But may the LORD forgive your servant for this one thing: When my master enters the temple of Rimmon to bow down and he is leaning on my arm and I bow there also—when I bow down in the temple of Rimmon, may the LORD forgive your servant for this."
19 "Go in peace," Elisha said.

Here, the prophet's theology seems to acknowledge that worship is a matter of the intellect/heart. When we say the mass equals/is idol worship are we saying it is what Paul condemns to the Corinthians. Is it equal to what YHWH forbid the ancients to do? I still see it as a leap. Again, I am not defending RC thought or practice so please refrain from dashing that straw man. Thanks again brothers and sisters.

Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

What do you mean by a 'few?" Well then your reputation preceedes you in the matter with them honestly. Could it be you are as polemical with family as you are on here at times?

Originally Posted by Theogenes

Here's a site where people can see the wafer god via a web cam and worship in the privacy of their cubicle:
Welcome to Savior.org!

If this isn't idolatry then I don't know what is....

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

It's no secret that Joe and I are pretty close. Here's a hypothetical: Let's say that Joe wasn't just close but that he was my biological dad. Are you saying that if he dies I shouldn't go to his funeral?


Father's Day, Tennessee, 2006

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Thanks for the interaction in this thread. Having read the reasons why some of the brethren here would attend RC funerals - while I am certainly not convinced they are right - I will be less quick to judge in future. I apologise if I sound dogmatic in my opposition, but it is difficult for someone from an Ulster Evangelical background to grasp why some Christians do not see that going to a mass is wrong. This is because the main enemy we have been fighting is Popery, rather than Secular Humanism - which seems to have been what American Evangelicals have had to mostly battle against in recent years.