Has anyone seen this video of Rick Warren speaking to ISNA (The Islamic Society of North America)?


I stopped watching about 10 minutes into it...

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Tim Phillips
Pastor, Midlane Park Presbyterian Church (ARP)
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"Wherever the gospel is preached, it is as if God Himself came into the midst of us." ~ John Calvin

I heard of him speaking there but I have not heard anything about it other than he was trying to find common ground in fighting AIDs, world hunger, etc. I'm not sure what I think about it. I'm not comfortable with being so ecumenical.

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Andrew Thornquist My Photo Album
Calvinistic Baptist
Ukiah, California
To follow Christ was the best decision God made for me!

no

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Jonathan
Audio Engineer
Reformed Anabaptist
Ohio

Moroni's magical glasses of proper interpretation:

It was an opportunity to give the gospel, but he said he wasn't interested in an interfaith dialogue, but in how Muslims and Christians can work together for social causes.

It is such a shame. Such a missed opportunity. I think that this really strikes a blow to those who say that Warren really is concerned about the Gospel but he is "confused". You know the old "his heart is in the right place "routine".

It seems Warren may have built his house on the sand so to speak.

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Willie Grills
Trinity Presbyterian Church
OPC
Huntington, WV

I think his heart is in the right place, in a sense. But God also makes the mouth, and he ain't using it like he should.

Is there a new book in the wings....The Purpose Driven Minaret ???

I got to 2:31 and this crossed my mind

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Rich Koster
1689'er
Browns Mills NJ USA
Often Goofy Reformed Eccentric
Romans 7:14-25

The Market-Driven Mosque.

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Nathan Tyler
Reformed Baptist
University of Toronto (Student: Hons. B.A. in Philosophy)
Ontario, Canada

1689'er

http://nathantyler.wordpress.com

Hmmmmmmmm. I guess the mosque controls the minaret, so multi level marketing rules in your favor

I don't have an internet connection I can watch videos on, so I can't watch it, but is it possible he is taking a longer term view? He could tell them the gospel and they would know he was trying to convert them and not be inclined to work together. But if he builds relationships and trust, then even years later, it might be VERY much more effective to share the gospel. That is certainly what I would do if I had the opportunity work with a group of Muslim leaders. Again, I haven't seen it, so I don't know, it's only a suggestion.

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Paul
No denomination, affiliated with FIEC
"Deliver me from worldly dispositions, for I am born from above and destined for glory" - Valley of Vision
"They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation" - Peter

Why is it that we think if we manufacture some way to make people like us, then we can slowly introduce them to bits and pieces of the Word?
The power is in the Word! Yes, we should be sensitive to our delivery, but my faith and trust is in Gods efficacious Word. He will work out the details of who responds and who rejects. Ours is to be faithful in proclaiming Christ crucified and the resurrection unto life.
Dancing around the gospel is symbolic of all that is wrong in the floundering realm of the modern church.

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Michael P Doyle
Waukesha WI
Member of http://www.cornerstone-pca.com/
Attending http://www.lampseminary.org/

This would be consistent for him though. It's exactly how he structured his church, finding out what people wanted and giving it to them so that he could slip the Gospel in...

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Joe Johnson
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I do not know, and I do not say, that a person cannot believe in Revelation and in evolution, too, for a man may believe that which is infinitely wise and also that which is only asinine. ~ CHS

I agree Joe. Unfortunately, I had to take exception with dr parsleys quote on the acceptability of this. I submit this humbly from concern for this type of misguided methodology.

I agree completely. We're supposed to be Reformed here. We believe that God works through the preaching of the Word. Using PC methodology, that will no doubt be changed in a couple of years, is ineffective. The proof I would submit is to look at a country where this approach has been used in evangelism or church planting and judge this approach by its fruit.

My question is where does the church ever get a commission to work with false religions to do good works?

How does that glorify God. I thought all glory was to go to Him. Would H share some with a moslem group?

Does Rick not have an OT in his bible? He missed something there about staying away from the heathen.

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DonP

I agree.
Heh, I definitely wasn't supporting him. It was just an observation.

Yes! That strikes straight at the heart of the matter. You hit the nail on the head PeaceMaker.
Unfortunatley, outside the PB you would be hard pressed to find many Christians who would agree and that is a shame.

And regarding Warren's wanting to bring all these religious groups together to do good (earthly good) deeds and pretending in a way that we're all in this together I am reminded of Jeremiah 6:14 - "They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace".

Or worse yet, the Tower of Babel
or the World peace of Revelation

Let me start by saying that I love Rick Warren as a brother in Christ. I intend this post with that point in mind.

Paul, don't you think Warren already had adequate trust built with these people considering they let him speak to all of them at their gathering? His relationship with this Muslim audience is obviously collective and not personal, so how much more trust is necessary for the foolish gospel to go out in power?

Thanks for your reply. As I said, I haven't watched the video (my connection is not good enough for videos), and I only offered the possibility that this is what is in Warren's mind. Others who have seen the video can say, "Well there's evidence that it's more than that", but I didn't expect anyone to disagree with the principle that it's possible to have such a mind.

And I don't know but maybe you're right that he needs to step it up. I would be slightly surprised if the opportunity to give the gospel would be in a meeting that was being filmed because that would be shameful to the Muslims. Can you imagine how people on PB would react if they saw a video of US Christian leaders sitting for a seminar and listening keenly as a Muslim explains why Islam is better than Christianity. Then they all get up for a coffee break and a biscuit and then sit back down for some more. I don't think so! To even countenance such a situation being plausible would imply that ecumenism has gone so far that it wouldn't bother us anymore.

Do we know he hasn't given the gospel in a less public setting?

I just can't picture the Early Church Fathers writing an Epistle to the Churches telling them to team up with Marcion and Montanus because, after all, they were interested in good moral behavior and taking care of people.

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Rich
PCA, Northern VA
Student, New Geneva Theological Seminary

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I just thought that this would lighten things up a bit...

Attached Images

money driven.jpg (45.4 KB, 8 views)

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Robert
Lay Person
PCA
West Virginia
Go share your faith

I don't think RW is really money driven. He might be ego-driven, but that's a problem many pastors (speaking from personal experience) have to wrestle with...

Quite frankly I find his pandering to the Muslims in this evidence of an egregious lack of discernment and good sense. It shows quite clearly that Warren hasn't got a clue about the reality of Islam, or about the responsibilities he has as a shepherd of the flock.

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
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http://puritanwisdom.blogspot.com

"As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
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Are you saying I have to change my picture???

Agreed. The biggest problems Muslims will ever have is that they are dead in their sins and not right with God. RW (I hope) knows the solution to that problem, and yet he withholds the gospel from them. Instead, he actually reads into their false religious system, where they want to do more good works so they can enter heaven. He is actually propping up a false gospel and perhaps making them twice the sons of hell they were before.

Perhaps just change it to "The Numbers Driven Pastor."

What I don't understand is who benefits from a joint effort with Moslems to feed peple?

What is his PURPOSE driving him to this?

Is God's church too weak a means to accomplish the kingdom, we need to join with false religions to accomplish it?

Or does he think working with them on a feeding project could get him into places to preach the gospel he would not be able to get to otherwise.

Then there may be some long term sense to it.

But not if he has to compromise what he believes and says about Islam in the process. If asked he would have to say they were misguided, deluded etc. H believes Christ is the Only way etc.

If he is forced to compromise then I don't see any way it can be a God ordained means to anything, deaconal or gospel.

Rick Warren is a spiritual pygmy. (Not that I consider myself to be some kind of spiritual giant)

I don't find this too surprising really.

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Donald Jacobs
Roanoke VA.
Covenant Reformed Episcopal Church.

Cum vero infirmor tunc potens sum.

That's a very good point you bring up!

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Claudiu
Reformed Baptist
attending Immanuel Baptist Church
Sacramento, CA

I haven't watched the video (due to it's length) but can someone give some background on the circumstances of his being there?

Is he supposed to share the gospel wherever he goes?

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Daniel
PCA
Memphis, TN

Yes.

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Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
Ontario, Canada

Does that just go for Rick Warren, or does that go for all Christians? If I go to my local Jewish community center to raise support for a pro-life cause, am I supposed to use the time to talk about Jesus?

Hmmm... That is kind of like like asking, is a doctor supposed to be a doctor wherever he goes?
If someone is needing a doctor and he does not help it can even be a crime.
Sadly he also can be prosecuted if he messes up.

But more importantly, you may not have to share the gospel wherever you go, though we are commanded to be prepared to give answer, but he is a Minister of the Gospel
I think he is always to be representing Christ where he goes in an official way and with the gospel.

Ask yourself. Can you see Jesus calling the Pharisees or the Romans to get together and start a feeding party for the poor with the Him?

And besides, why doesn't he get together with other Christian groups to do this? We have a hard enough time getting the Presbys of different denoms to work together or the baptists and the presbys.

Wouldn't that make more sense to try to bridge these or make some unity here?

No it's not. I'm not suggesting he has to stop being a Christian. I'm talking about sharing the gospel. Are Christians required to share the gospel whenever they meet with people or get up in front of an audience?

Again, I'm not suggesting he shouldn't represent Christ. And yes, his being a minister is important, but I still don't think that necessitates his preaching the gospel at every event.

I already said there is a difference between all Christians and a Minister of the Gospel

So you said he is to always be representing Christ. What do you think Christ would say if He got a chance to be in front of a bunch of Moslems? Or Paul, or Peter?
Hey guys we are all children of God, lets get together and feed some poor people?

I'd prefer we not get into hypotheticals regarding what Jesus would do and instead address the question at hand: Are Christians (or ministers specifically) supposed to share gospel any time they meet with people or speak in front of a group?

Paul,

The gospel is what saves, not our personality or friendship. Thus, why would we befriend the lost OVER giving the gospel. Is this the biblical example. Does paul go somewhere else and start a kumbaya circle?

GOSPEL, always.

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John Weathersby
Calvary Chapel
New Mexico

"For I decided to know nothing among you except
Jesus Christ and him crucified (1 Cor 2:2)".

I don't believe that Christian congregations and Muslim congregations should get together to do good works. Warren should have said that Islam is a false religion and that Christian churches should not be cooperating with Muslim churches to do good works.

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Curt Hayashida
member, Community Bible Church (Non-denominational)
Vallejo, CA