What's with this phenomena? It seems that the charismaniacs are always "going under in the Spirit". I've never seen anything in Scripture that warrants that - what do they use to justify this practice?
What's with this phenomena? It seems that the charismaniacs are always "going under in the Spirit". I've never seen anything in Scripture that warrants that - what do they use to justify this practice?
Here's a list of verses that are claimed (at least from one source). You can see for yourself that there's no justifying the idea on these grounds:
Even if there were some Scriptural warrant for the notion of falling backward and being struck temporarily unable to stand and/or move, there is NO justification for the folly that reigns at charismatic services wherein the practice of being 'slain' takes place. It's an example of mass hysteria and contrived reactions by gullible people who have been (no kind way to say it) simply hoodwinked.
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Thanks for the info. I'm getting ready to write a response to the Bentley circus on another forum and there's a lady there who firmly believes in being slain in the spirit. Although I don't want to sidetrack the intended post I do intend to mention being "slain". This woman is of the "don't confuse me with the facts" camp and sees all criticism of the Lakewood goings on as just detractors getting in their digs. I intend to link several YouTube clips showing Bentley's own words and actions. There's a recent one of him "baptising" people that is just short (maybe?) of blasphemy. Ick!!!
When my dd was in her early teens we attended a revival service at a friend's charismatic church. At one point several women surrounded her and began pushing against her forhead in an attempt to make her go under in the spirit. Daughter was very irritated over that - good for her!!! It was interesting that the women didn't try that stunt on me!
What's with this phenomena? It seems that the charismaniacs are always "going under in the Spirit". I've never seen anything in Scripture that warrants that - what do they use to justify this practice?
One thing that I found most interesting regarding being "slain in the Spirit" were the little blankets that were kept under the first couple of pews of many Pentecostal churches. As a young Christian I would attend services with friends from every flavor of Pentecostal you could imagine - Church of God, Chruch of God in Christ, Assemblies of God, Congregational Holiness, etc. And nearly all of them at that time had these little blankets handy.
When I asked what they were for I was told they were to cover up lady's legs who were slain so they would not be immodest. Hmmm...I'm hoping the red flags are going off for you!
Let's see...the HOLY Spirit of God is going to have anything to do with a woman becoming immodest in the church? Wow!
The Pentecostal Church is after the same kind of Christianity that Simon the Sorceror was after. They're not after the Cross, they're after power.
Thats all that needs to be said.
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Joe
Member
Providence Reformed Baptist Chuch, Toledo Ohio
2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689
And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live. Ezk 16:6
This has been an interesting topic for me. While I strongly believe it is not biblical, I also have a rather odd experience with it.
When a teenager I went with my parents to a Assembly of God Church in my city. After the service we were asked if anyone would like to come up and be ministered to. I went up and asked to receive the Holy Spirit (although was somewhat skeptical of it actually happening). This guy prayed over me and touched my forehead. I thought it was all bogus as he pushed a little harder and a little harder. I went along with it anyway I began to think it would be sort of funny with all this praying in tongues and shouting "in the name of Jesus" if nothing happened.
Anyway I am not sure what happened after that. It was like at that moment of doubt when I refused to budge (and to this day I don't believe he pushed me because I didn't feel anything) I felt light and as if sitting on a cloud and drifted lazily to the ground in utter bliss. My whole body tingled from my fingers to my toes and I couldn't move - which was great because I was so relaxed I did not want to. All I could do was listen to this guy praise "the LORD" and speak in tongues in some "angelic voice". It sounded to me like heaven.
Now as I said I don't believe any more that this is biblical. That it happened is not proof that it was from God. It is just a mystery to me how it happened. It is alright to say that you get pushed etc... but that does not explain what happened to me.
The closest I have got is explaining it by a bodily reaction. I discovered after school one day when thinking about this that when taking a deep breath and focusing my energy on my lower chest area (as if in anticipation) I would start to feel giddy within half a second and loose my balance and my whole body would tingle as if on a drug. I could even "overdose" on this if I did it too often and afterwards would get a headache and fatigue. My theory is that there is a chemical somewhere/somehow in your body that does this and it created in my the exact same symptoms as when I was "slain in the spirit". Never talked to a doctor though about it because they probably would not take me seriously
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Fraser,
Trinity Reformed Baptist Church
Hamilton, New Zealand.
For anyone dealing directly with the charismatics who do this, you might point out that in every scriptural instance where people bit the dust before the glory of God, where the direction is mentioned, it was falling forward, not backward. As a physician I think this is a combination of hyperventilation and suggestion, an entirely natural phenomenon. However, it is entirely possible that some people at some time might have serious and healthy spiritual business transacted in this context. That doesn't justify the practice. If someone becomes a believer by falling into a well, we don't all throw our unbelieving neighbors into the closest well.
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Mary Vanderkooi
Kale Heywott Church (KHC)
Soddo, Ethiopia
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I find it interesting that some New Age religionists do the same practice of getting people to fall over backwards with a hand to the forehead or a breath, too. I suspect it might just be owing to one's stance, since I have been knocked over by a happy two-year old before. If that's it, then being "slain by the Holy Ghost" may be in the same category as "magic" card tricks.
__________________ Less than the least of all saints, Peter At home:All Saints, REC.. At seminary:New Hope, PCA.
ETS, Due West, SC, CSA Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord
and whose hope the Lord is:
For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters. Jer. 17:8
For anyone dealing directly with the charismatics who do this, you might point out that in every scriptural instance where people bit the dust before the glory of God, where the direction is mentioned, it was falling forward, not backward. As a physician I think this is a combination of hyperventilation and suggestion, an entirely natural phenomenon. However, it is entirely possible that some people at some time might have serious and healthy spiritual business transacted in this context. That doesn't justify the practice. If someone becomes a believer by falling into a well, we don't all throw our unbelieving neighbors into the closest well.
Now that gave me a good laugh! I'm seriously considering tossing a couple of my neighbors into a well as I type.
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Brad
Member- Eagle Heights PCA
Winchester, VA
Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
I am waiting for a group to start claiming they have the gift of teleportation as per Acts 8:39-40. There's more biblical evidence that this is a gift than that of being slain. Plus it would be totally cool to watch.
Having been in Charismatic circles in the past I have personally had this experience of being "slain in the spirit' and it is certainly self-induced. In some instances I was literally pushed and in most instances I got caught up in the frenzy of seeing others fall over. I think most that fall over in Benny's revivalist meetings are actually pushed, which is the old way of doing it. Perhaps people were also knocked out because of his bad breath
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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:
Within Reformed circles there have been cases of people going off into swoons during a worship service. During the Great Awakenings, some women would faint under Jonathan Edwards' preaching. While these instances have been observed throughout church history, there never was the type of interpretation held today by the Pentecostalists that those manifestations were induced by the Holy Spirit. Jonathan Edwards, although he witnessed strange phenomena during the awakening was himself opposed to emotionalism and did not try to promote that kind of behavior. The Pentecostalist's belief in "falling under the power of the Holy Spirit" or "being slain in the Spirit" may have originated from those rare but genuine instances, but as Edwards points out in his "Treatise on Religious Affections" such behaviors are no proof or evidence of gracious affections as there is nothing that prevents them from being induced by the devil. Even if such phenomena were found in Scriptures, because they are not explicitly commanded in the NT, they go against the Regulative Principle of worship, and are not to be tolerated during a service.
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Jean-David Jutras
URCNA
Alberta
I got into a conversation over this with my mother, who was reading a bit from our Bible Answer Man book (I know, I know, don't get on to me about it) and it's part about being slain in the spirit. She asked me about what I thought, and I gave a sort of non-committal answer about crowd hysteria, after which she told me that on her recent missions trip she was at a service (some massive 24/7 church in Bogata, Columbia) and went down to the front to pray. She said "she wasn't expecting or planning to fall down, it just happened" when the pastor touched her. And that it is the "overwhelming presence of God" which makes people fall. Quite frankly, if there's anyone I know who could be easily influenced by mass hysteria, it's my dear mother.
Well, I dropped it, because I just don't feel comfortable "getting into it" with her in theological matters (learned my lesson when we had our first child baptized), but she spent the rest of her visit telling me all about the angelic sightings, healings, demonic spirits and so forth that are commonplace happenings in that place.
I am waiting for a group to start claiming they have the gift of teleportation as per Acts 8:39-40. There's more biblical evidence that this is a gift than that of being slain. Plus it would be totally cool to watch.
Having been in Charismatic circles in the past I have personally had this experience of being "slain in the spirit' and it is certainly self-induced. In some instances I was literally pushed and in most instances I got caught up in the frenzy of seeing others fall over. I think most that fall over in Benny's revivalist meetings are actually pushed, which is the old way of doing it. Perhaps people were also knocked out because of his bad breath
What's always amazed with with Benny Hinn, even when he whips off the Nairu jacket and knocks people over with that, is that no matter how many people fall down or how much excitement takes place, the camera man (the one standing near him with the portable unit) never ever falls down.
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Even though those who practice this use these scriptures, I don't find ANY scriptural support for someone laying on hands on someone else during the experience.
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Blessings,
Sister C
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...is that in most of those scriptures, they were falling down in fear or terror, not swooning in glory - although the first passage may indicate that.
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Thats all that needs to be said.
Bryan Riddle
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