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Cults & World Religions discuss Oral Roberts Has Died in the Apologetics Forum forums; Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining Originally Posted by Berean Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining He told Benny Hinn and others (who then spread the "prophecy") that God ...

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Berean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    He told Benny Hinn and others (who then spread the "prophecy") that God had told him that he was going to die when he was 90. So even his death points to him being a false prophet.
    Does anyone remember when the funding for his medical school was falling short? He announced that God had told him that he would die if the money wasn't raised. He actually appealed to donors to "extend my life" by donating to the building fund.
    I do know of the story. My mom was working at the hospital at the time. She was also in the audience when the donor gave the amount needed.
    Did your mom have the paddles ready and charged?
    Earl, a man, married to a girl named Tina.
    Member of Willow Creek Church PCA in Winter Springs Florida.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods Presbyterian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post

    But it doesn't mean the guy is a heretic and going to Hell.
    You don't think Oral Roberts taught and promoted heresy?
    My comment was directed more towards the imaginary guy yelling "Jesus."

    That being said, I do not know everything about Oral Roberts so I may be missing something. From what I have seen, I do not think he promoted heresy. Teaching that Jesus is a miracle worker is not heresy, I just think OR was wrong about how this all worked out. Teaching the prosperity Gospel is not heresy, it is a "bill of goods and pile of ****" to quote Piper.

    At the end of his tent revivals, he would give an altar call that is just like 90% of the churches in the world today. In fact, I would venture to say that the altar calls are not that much different from Billy Graham's and I don't think we would call him a heretic. If he was constantly pointing people to the saving work of Christ, then I can't consider him a heretic. I do not throw that word around lightly.

    OR's theology consisted of the basic tenets of Christianity mixed with error (as someone pointed out in the other thread). The same could be said about everyone. Even MacArthur admits that he is wrong about somethings (and if he knew what it was he would change it). Think about it, either paedo or cred baptism is right. Both can't be. Either amil, postmil, premil, or dispy premil is right, all can't be. At what point do we say that someone has too much error and becomes a heretic? 30%? 40%? 50%?

    I don't think a percentage can be given. I think it comes down to certain beliefs. OR believed in salvation through Christ alone, and I have not seen anything where OR takes away anything from the nature of God. He believes in a sovereign all powerful personal God who loves his children. Out of this love he sees God working miracles and blessing people.

    Was OR wrong about things? yes. Did he prophecy stuff that did not come true? yes.

    does this make him a heretic? I will let God determine the condition of his soul. I recommend you do the same.
    With all do respect Oral Roberts taught practically nothing but heresy. Due to the impreciseness of his theology he often taught a modalistic view of the Trinity (heresy). He did not teach the Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ's substitutionary death on the cross and he was not a confused Arminian but a full-blown Pelagian (heresy). There is more there but I do not feel the need to go on.
    Rev. Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, ARP
    Pastor, Ellisville Presbyterian Church, ARP
    Ellisville, Mississippi

    ‎‎"Ministers of the Gospel, when dispensing the truths of God, must preach home to their own souls, as well as unto others. Sir's, we do not deliver truths or doctrines to you, wherein we ourselves have no manner of concern. No, our own souls are at the stake, and shall either perish or be saved eternally, as we receive or reject these precious truths which we deliver unto you. And truly, it can never be expected that we will apply the truths of God with any warmth or liveliness unto others, unless we first make a warm application thereof to our own souls. And if we do not feed upon these doctrines, and practise these duties, which we deliver to and inculcate upon you, though we preach unto others, we ourselves are but castaways." -- Ebenezer Erskine, "The Assurance of Faith", pg. 8

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  3. #43
    CIT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods Presbyterian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Backwoods Presbyterian View Post

    You don't think Oral Roberts taught and promoted heresy?
    My comment was directed more towards the imaginary guy yelling "Jesus."

    That being said, I do not know everything about Oral Roberts so I may be missing something. From what I have seen, I do not think he promoted heresy. Teaching that Jesus is a miracle worker is not heresy, I just think OR was wrong about how this all worked out. Teaching the prosperity Gospel is not heresy, it is a "bill of goods and pile of ****" to quote Piper.

    At the end of his tent revivals, he would give an altar call that is just like 90% of the churches in the world today. In fact, I would venture to say that the altar calls are not that much different from Billy Graham's and I don't think we would call him a heretic. If he was constantly pointing people to the saving work of Christ, then I can't consider him a heretic. I do not throw that word around lightly.

    OR's theology consisted of the basic tenets of Christianity mixed with error (as someone pointed out in the other thread). The same could be said about everyone. Even MacArthur admits that he is wrong about somethings (and if he knew what it was he would change it). Think about it, either paedo or cred baptism is right. Both can't be. Either amil, postmil, premil, or dispy premil is right, all can't be. At what point do we say that someone has too much error and becomes a heretic? 30%? 40%? 50%?

    I don't think a percentage can be given. I think it comes down to certain beliefs. OR believed in salvation through Christ alone, and I have not seen anything where OR takes away anything from the nature of God. He believes in a sovereign all powerful personal God who loves his children. Out of this love he sees God working miracles and blessing people.

    Was OR wrong about things? yes. Did he prophecy stuff that did not come true? yes.

    does this make him a heretic? I will let God determine the condition of his soul. I recommend you do the same.
    With all do respect Oral Roberts taught practically nothing but heresy. Due to the impreciseness of his theology he often taught a modalistic view of the Trinity (heresy). He did not teach the Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ's substitutionary death on the cross and he was not a confused Arminian but a full-blown Pelagian (heresy). There is more there but I do not feel the need to go on.
    As I said, I am not a OR scholar, so I would have to take you at your word on the above.

    Also I was not comparing MacArthur to Roberts. I was merely pointing out that even those who respect admit to having "wrong" in their theology. So the simple fact of having wrong in their theology does not make them a heretic. It has to go beyond that.

    No my mom did not have a defib, she was enamored by the man (and is still to this day to an extent) and just knew that God would provide.
    B

  4. #44
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    If speaking ill of the dead is wrong, then Peter and Jude were guilty of the same when they spoke of Cain, Balaam, and Korah. We should then never speak ill of Finney, Pelagius, or Arius.

    OR would fit right in with those fellows, having taught much the same as they.

    It may garner me demerit in the eyes of some, but I have no reluctance to state plainly that OR was a flaming heretic, and if his death will result in fewer of the elect having to spend time, or a shorter time, under the misery of the teachings he promulgated, I for one am relieved at his demise.
    Brad

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    These toadies just keep holdin' me down, man!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    If speaking ill of the dead is wrong, then Peter and Jude were guilty of the same when they spoke of Cain, Balaam, and Korah. We should then never speak ill of Finney, Pelagius, or Arius.

    OR would fit right in with those fellows, having taught much the same as they.

    It may garner me demerit in the eyes of some, but I have no reluctance to state plainly that OR was a flaming heretic, and if his death will result in fewer of the elect having to spend time, or a shorter time, under the misery of the teachings he promulgated, I for one am relieved at his demise.
    There is a difference between pointing out the faults of those who have passed, and throwing a party that someone is burning in Hell. This is all I meant about having respect.
    B

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    If speaking ill of the dead is wrong, then Peter and Jude were guilty of the same when they spoke of Cain, Balaam, and Korah. We should then never speak ill of Finney, Pelagius, or Arius.

    OR would fit right in with those fellows, having taught much the same as they.

    It may garner me demerit in the eyes of some, but I have no reluctance to state plainly that OR was a flaming heretic, and if his death will result in fewer of the elect having to spend time, or a shorter time, under the misery of the teachings he promulgated, I for one am relieved at his demise.
    There is a difference between pointing out the faults of those who have passed, and throwing a party that someone is burning in Hell. This is all I meant about having respect.
    I agree with this to a point. But do not forget. the elect of God will sing praises as the damned smoke rises up forever and ever in the eschalon.
    Robert
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    RCA

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  7. #47
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    Albert Mohler has just posted his thoughts on Oral Roberts and his passing on his blog.
    AlbertMohler.com
    Joshua
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoon View Post
    Albert Mohler has just posted his thoughts on Oral Roberts and his passing on his blog.
    AlbertMohler.com
    A balanced and historically informed assessment that does not whitewash his faults (other than some of the rankest heresies identified in this thread), and places him within the context of American 20th Century Christianity -- for good AND ill.
    Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
    Atherton Baptist Homes, Alhambra, CA, President/CEO, Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post

    To compare Dr. John MacArthur to Oral Roberts is beyond apples to oranges. That's more like apples to motorcycles in my book.
    Or maybe more like apples to oranges in a state of decrepitude and toxic mold.

    Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
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  10. #50
    CIT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazing Grace View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad View Post
    If speaking ill of the dead is wrong, then Peter and Jude were guilty of the same when they spoke of Cain, Balaam, and Korah. We should then never speak ill of Finney, Pelagius, or Arius.

    OR would fit right in with those fellows, having taught much the same as they.

    It may garner me demerit in the eyes of some, but I have no reluctance to state plainly that OR was a flaming heretic, and if his death will result in fewer of the elect having to spend time, or a shorter time, under the misery of the teachings he promulgated, I for one am relieved at his demise.
    There is a difference between pointing out the faults of those who have passed, and throwing a party that someone is burning in Hell. This is all I meant about having respect.
    I agree with this to a point. But do not forget. the elect of God will sing praises as the damned smoke rises up forever and ever in the eschalon.
    Yes but to do this now with OR would mean you know the condition of his soul. I don't think any here knows without a doubt whether he was elect or not.
    B

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    I think it's plain he was a false prophet. Let us remember that we do not know how long we have on this earth - We must repent. I will not glory in his death, but I have to be honest and say it's pretty clear he was a false prophet, not a sheep.

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    You'll recall, this was the fakir who claimed to have a
    vision of a 900-foot-tall Jesus. It had also been Jesus
    who commissioned him to find a cancer cure.

    In 1987, God told Roberts he'd kill him [Roberts] unless
    people donated 8-million dollars ! ( The Lord allowed
    Roberts to live because people sent in 9.1-million. )
    Dao

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangecharm View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by earl40 View Post
    I wonder what John MacArthur is thinking. Or better yet, did his second of the six part series come out yet?
    Part 2 is out
    What six part series are you all speaking of?
    Rick
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolaSaint View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by strangecharm View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by earl40 View Post
    I wonder what John MacArthur is thinking. Or better yet, did his second of the six part series come out yet?
    Part 2 is out
    What six part series are you all speaking of?
    A Colossal Fraud

    Where I got "6" I thought I read it somewhere. Probably my mistake.
    Earl, a man, married to a girl named Tina.
    Member of Willow Creek Church PCA in Winter Springs Florida.

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    I'm not sure how many "parts" there will be to the series. I've never seen a number. The Oral Roberts "special" may have been added because it was timely.
    Norm
    PCA
    Iowa

    Our fair morning is at hand, the daystar is near the rising, and we are not many miles from home; what matters the ill entertainment in the smoky inns of this miserable life? We are not to stay here, and we will be dearly welcome to Him whom we go to. --The Loveliness of Christ, Samuel Rutherford

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