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Cults & World Religions discuss Lew White and Bill Cloud - Anyone heard of these guys in the Apologetics Forum forums; www.fossilizedcustoms.com www.billcloud.com On my vacation, I ran across some very disturbing and highly cultish individuals who espoused these men's theologies. The meeting with them was ...

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    Theoretical's Avatar
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    Lew White and Bill Cloud - Anyone heard of these guys

    www.fossilizedcustoms.com
    www.billcloud.com

    On my vacation, I ran across some very disturbing and highly cultish individuals who espoused these men's theologies. The meeting with them was one of the top five most disturbing times in my life - their theology is so hideously man-centered and almost demonic in its intensity.

    I'm curious as to the reactions and experiences with this bunch are.
    Scott - Dallas, Texas - Faith OPC

    "It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do." - Edmund Burke

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    Messianic "Jews" really really annoy me. These folks are heretics straight from the pages of Paul's letters to the Ephesians and Galatians. I have fun with these folks: I have the "right" ancestors and they cannot understand why I am a "race traitor" or "denying my roots." Um could it be....God's Will? The Messianic "Jews" are a lot loonier than the goofiest Wiccans! Their very old heresy missed Acts 10 and the rest of the NT (they seem to stop at Acts 7 or 8 and skip right to Revelation). Their theology is beyond bad and the issue IS salvic IMNSHO.
    Gail

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    Quote Originally Posted by calgal View Post
    Messianic "Jews" really really annoy me. These folks are heretics straight from the pages of Paul's letters to the Ephesians and Galatians. I have fun with these folks: I have the "right" ancestors and they cannot understand why I am a "race traitor" or "denying my roots." Um could it be....God's Will? The Messianic "Jews" are a lot loonier than the goofiest Wiccans! Their very old heresy missed Acts 10 and the rest of the NT (they seem to stop at Acts 7 or 8 and skip right to Revelation). Their theology is beyond bad and the issue IS salvic IMNSHO.
    There was something much nuttier in these people than mere Messianic Judaism. In fact, this stuff wasn't even the main theology they were into

    This was an older couple in their mid-50s who both went way, way off the deep end relgiously after 9/11. The husband in particular had some hideous theology. He apparently had some voice speak to him two years ago on two different occasions telling him to radically change his life and that that was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

    They hold to the most bizarre interpretation of Esther and Ruth I've yet heard; namely, that both Mordecai and Naomi were the Holy Spirit Himself and that was an example of His guiding individual believers with direct revelation.

    There was a heavy emphasis on every aspect of weakness, infirmity, or sin being demonic activity every true Christian could and should exorcise, including an example of the wife exorcising the demon of "car exhaust" and numerous other things in this sense as utterly demonic.

    Most disturbingly, there was a massive effort to appeal to my spiritual pride, by saying not only that I was incredibly advanced (for describing some fairly basic historical and theological knowledge) and the like. Finally, they claimed that I was Joseph [as in son of Jacob and 2nd in Command under Pharaoh], 2nd in Command in the Universe and that any true believer who had received the Holy Spirit was striving to be THE BRIDE of Christ in an individual sense. At this point the husband was so incredibly intense into this nonsense and pride that I seriously wondered whether he himself was demon-possessed (and there's only been one or two other incidents in my life where I've ever thought that way about someone's conduct).

    They also believed that the United States was the scattered 10 tribes of Israel/Ephraim. Additionally, they were rapturists (no surprise here).

    Frustratingly in this conversation was the utterly annnoying and common tactic of agreeing with everything I was saying including those utterly contradictory to their theology. I was regrettably caught off guard to this nonsense and let myself be cornered, rather than going on the offensive and systematically dismantling some of the worst stuff, tenderly and graciously of course. But, alas - it was a hard lesson to be learned.

    I wasn't able to add this entire segment in my previous post. Thankfully, I didn't encounter them again, but it was disturbing to see how wrong-headed people can become with exposure to really bad religious teaching.
    Last edited by Theoretical; 12-24-2006 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Clarification
    Scott - Dallas, Texas - Faith OPC

    "It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do." - Edmund Burke

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    These are also some of their major reference points.

    David Middleton: www.doersoftheword.org
    John and Lisa Bevere: www.messengerintl.org
    Frank Viola: Pagan Christianity

    I've previously encountered far less rabid Messianic Judaism than this stuff, but I'm not sure how in the world these other authors and teachers could get mixed into this stew of theology with the former two. Go figure.
    Scott - Dallas, Texas - Faith OPC

    "It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do." - Edmund Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoretical View Post
    There was something much nuttier in these people than mere Messianic Judaism. In fact, this stuff wasn't even the main theology they were into

    This was an older couple in their mid-50s who both went way, way off the deep end relgiously after 9/11. The husband in particular had some hideous theology. He apparently had some voice speak to him two years ago on two different occasions telling him to radically change his life and that that was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

    They hold to the most bizarre interpretation of Esther and Ruth I've yet heard; namely, that both Mordecai and Naomi were the Holy Spirit Himself and that was an example of His guiding individual believers with direct revelation.

    There was a heavy emphasis on every aspect of weakness, infirmity, or sin being demonic activity every true Christian could and should exorcise, including an example of the wife exorcising the demon of "car exhaust" and numerous other things in this sense as utterly demonic.

    Most disturbingly, there was a massive effort to appeal to my spiritual pride, by saying not only that I was incredibly advanced (for describing some fairly basic historical and theological knowledge) and the like. Finally, they claimed that I was Joseph [as in son of Jacob and 2nd in Command under Pharaoh], 2nd in Command in the Universe and that any true believer who had received the Holy Spirit was striving to be THE BRIDE of Christ in an individual sense. At this point the husband was so incredibly intense into this nonsense and pride that I seriously wondered whether he himself was demon-possessed (and there's only been one or two other incidents in my life where I've ever thought that way about someone's conduct).

    They also believed that the United States was the scattered 10 tribes of Israel/Ephraim. Additionally, they were rapturists (no surprise here).

    Frustratingly in this conversation was the utterly annnoying and common tactic of agreeing with everything I was saying including those utterly contradictory to their theology. I was regrettably caught off guard to this nonsense and let myself be cornered, rather than going on the offensive and systematically dismantling some of the worst stuff, tenderly and graciously of course. But, alas - it was a hard lesson to be learned.

    I wasn't able to add this entire segment in my previous post. Thankfully, I didn't encounter them again, but it was disturbing to see how wrong-headed people can become with exposure to really bad religious teaching.
    Prosperity gospel with a twist is what they sound like. My condolences! If someone has no foundation for their faith then this kind of nonsense would be swallowed as truth.
    Gail

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