Ckeck this video out!!

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* Ralph Wilms (7-10-1974)
* Church : Christengemeente Roermond (The Netherlands)
* 1729 Goat Yard Declaration of Faith & 1646 Baptist Confession of faith

"To our mind, either everything or nothing must be held in subjection to the will and providence of God. Even the wickedness of ungodly men is restricted by predestination, so that the wrath of man shall praise God, and the remainder of wrath He will restrain." - GILBERT BEEBE (1800-1881)

Very interesting...

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Ben
Chaplain, US Army
Ft. Riley, KS
TE Ohio Valley Presbytery, PCA

Hmm.. I think Reformed denominations should do more mission work in Europe.

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Joel de Leon
Member (man under care)
Christ Presbyterian Church, OPC
Salt Lake City, UT

The Cleansed Leper

I think the video exaggerates a little bit and the part about Canada was completely misleading. Notice how it didn't mention who it was that was immigrating to Canada? I guarantee that not all of those people are Muslim.

Also, looking at Canada's birthrate as a whole is also misleading. Quebec's (the French part of Canada) birthrate is MUCH lower than that of Anglophone (English) Canada. When looking at Canada you basically need to separate the two if you want any accurate statistics.

But overall, I think the video is correct. The Atheistic worldview which drives our culture is leading us to destroy ourselves. Even if religion was totally false like Atheists try to claim, it is evolutionarily superior. Atheism naturally leads to the extinction of the human cultures that embrace it (abortion, euthanasia, materialism, lack of purpose, lack of hope, meaningless lives, depression, etc). And given that Muslims are the only people immigrating to Europe and having children Europe will probably become majority or at least substantially Muslim (unless some radical changes start happening).

This does not necessarily mean that Europe will become fundamentalist Muslim however. Who knows how much the Atheistic worldview will affect all these new Muslim children. Maybe they will be infected the same way the European Christians have been infected.

Anyway, to sum up, the video makes a good point but the conclusions are not necessarily as drastic as the video wants to make you believe.

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Mark Maney
Edmonton Chinese Baptist Church
Master of Theological Studies
Master of Arts (Cross Cultural)
Trinity Western University, ACTS Seminaries
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

I watched this video first thing this morning...what a way to wake up! UGH!

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William F. Hill, Jr.
Immanuel Presbyterian Church, (PCA)
Norfolk, Va.

Quite misleading, I mean a lot of people come to the EU and UK who are from muslim countries but not necessarily practicing.

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Lee Johnston
Church of Scotland (Presbyterian)
Paisley, Scotland
Ephesians 1:4-5
"In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will."

It seems like the false prophet of Revelation is rising up

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Pepper
Assistant Pastor/Elder
Southern Baptist
Taylors, South Carolina

Well I would like for some of the people that say that this is misleading to open their eyes and take a look around, and experience the media war and what else, I am so tired of people not taking this seriously, I am sorry for having to say it this way, but I am sick and tired of people that tell us that this kind of info is misleading and excadurated.
And even if I were to grant you to it was, then all you have to do is ad an extra of 10 years on top of the once given in this video so my son will be 28 in stead of 18.
Of course they (the muslims) are going to do as the romans do, while Rome is still Roman, but as soon as it is muslim, the roman ways are over.
SO WAKE UP!!!
It is comming to you to, so in stead of singing yourself t sleep over there, like the false prophets of old, that there is no fear, start doing something NOW.
We can not make our politicians see, so it is to late for us, has been for some time now, all we can do MAYBE is prospone the disaster a bit, but you can still do something.
And I do not agree that this video is "interesting" it is tragic and poteltially life threatening if maybe not for me, then deffinetly for my children, so please WAKE UP!

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Martin - Reformed
Husband to the most godly, honorable and loyal wife Line
Searching for a Church
Webpage www.5solas.dk
Free Online Reformed Seminary - http://www.tnars.net
Soli Deo Gloria

A Rev 9er, I see!

Francis Nigel Lee and W.J. Mencarow have good messages on that topic from Sermon Audio.

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Toni Cunningham, Wife of Bill (Theognome)
Parkwoods OPC, Overland Park KS

"Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, As, to be hated, needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, We first endure, then pity, then embrace." ~ Alexander Pope

Come on, people. Have children.

I heard at a homeschooling conference this past weekend that since 1900, the birthrate in the US has fallen from an average of 4 to an average of 2, while the average home size has doubled (I think from 1000 to 2000 sq ft, but not sure). Me. Me. Me. Narcissism, anyone?

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Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
Ontario, Canada

completely

we need more Covenant children

But with the humanist and secularist and atheist and few Christians standing up against these things is it really that misleading? what is the birth rate of those non-practicing Muslims compared to those of Christians, or even atheist? If it is still greater than does it matter they are non-practicing?

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Bobbi Clark
Covenant Member
Pinewood Pres. (PCA) Middleburg

When I kept Silent, My bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. Psalm 32:3

Hey, I tried, but I can't populate the world alone! (I speak as a mother of many)

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JC - PCA - PA...homesick for SC
A we n' de Ya, ho; I mak sikker; Deus juvat

Indicabo tibi o homo quid sit bonum, et quid Dominus requirat a te: Utique facere iudicium, et diligere, misericordiam, et sollicitum ambulare cum Deo tuo. Michaeas 6:8

"Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

Hah! No repopulating here! I can't find a girl in the Church who will give up her dreams of a "successful and fulfilling" career to marry and have kids.

But to be on topic, the fields are sure ripe for harvest.(Of souls that is) I still find it strange how "Christians" can have a crusade over 500 years ago, and their still demonized for it, while Muslims can rape, torture, kill, and abuse women, and they are the fastest growing religion in the world...

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Ian Kemmerer
Trinity Bible Fellowship, Blandon, PA
Fleetwood, PA

"Be still, my soul: when dearest friends depart, And all is darkened in the vale of tears, Then shalt thou better know His love, His heart, Who comes to soothe thy sorrow and thy fears. Be still, my soul: thy Jesus can repay From His own fullness all He takes away."

"Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee."

More mind bogglingly stupid paranoid pseudo science.

Thirty one countries in Europe will die out. No chance for the survival of Greece, Spain etc...None at all. They will go the way of the Hittites.

Why? Historical research proves it!

Then I guess we'd better take it as gospel. I mean you can't argue with historical research.

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Tim Vaughan
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian, OPC,
Santa Maria
California

Blast it all!

True, historical research is not the be-all and end-all, but the common theme with Islam seems to be: immigrate, have lots o' kids, be the tail that wags the dog, take over. Remember that the Middle East, the center of Islam, in 600 AD was Christian. It's coming to a neighbourhood near you.

100%

The center was Christian? I thought that if someone held to homoiousion we didn't consider them orthodox. That if Christ was just "similar" to the father then it is just natural that someone else like Muhammad can come along and be, well, more similar. And that from five hundred years ago to today if you were to plot the geographic area controlled by Muslims every 50 years it would be shrinking? Or is there some sort of insider info that I'm not privy to?

Had YouTube existed in 160D, I wonder what the stories would have looked like. Perhaps something like....

"Consider these shocking trends; right now, only 96% of Europe is a part of the emperor worship cult; but, as Marcus Aurelius launches his campaigns into the heart of Germania, we must prepare ourselves for the fact that but 15 years from now, upwards of 99% of Europe will bow the knee."

Yes, we need to be constantly evangelizing; yes, we need to be fruitful and multiplying; but I'm not sure that the changing demographics have anything to do with this. Whether it is Islam, Christless Christianity, Buddhism or Secular Humanism (or even orthodox Christianity) that is on the "up-and-up," we should still be doing these things with the same earnestness. This video seems to me to be doing little more than creating a "Christianity is currently being defeated, and we need to strike back" mindset. Scare tactics are always short lived in the fruit and zeal they produce*. I think we should rather remain confident in the word of God and maintain our zeal for this, and humbly and confidently pray, "Thy kingdom come."


*Please no one take offense and think I am reducing the video entirely to this; there is surely useful information contained therein, and we should be aware of these things.

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Paul Korte
OPC
Flint, MI

They who perceive in themselves discoveries of the divine goodness, so full and absolutely perfect, and who make them the subject of earnest meditation, will never embrace new doctrines, by which the very grace they feel so powerfully in themselves is thrown into the shade. --John Calvin

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Additionally I think the 'aura' of this sort of video tends to foster either fear or hostility towards people who are as much our neighbors as any of the secularists, surely. Cultures do come and go (did we really think the demographics of the world would never change again?), but the church is not attached to national/ethnic boundaries and will continue to batter the gates of hell in all the earth. Islam isn't going to defeat the risen Christ, whatever the tactic. Perhaps they are giving birth to many children who are going to be swept into the kingdom of God?

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Heidi
Indianapolis, Indiana

Patience must dwell with Love, for Love and Sorrow
Have pitched their tent together here:
Love all alone will build a house tomorrow,
And sorrow not be near. -Christina Rossetti

Yes, I do. (But it's "insider" info, so I can't tell you...)

It is true that Islam will never overtake our Risen Lord Jesus Christ. But, it is also true that nations/cultures rise and fall. I do think that the birth rates of Western Cultures when compared to those of Muslims will cause a great change in the cultural forces that work within Western societies. It is already taking place in Europe and in some North American cities. That does not mean that the church will be 'defeated'. It does mean that the context in which we find ourselves may be, most likely will be, radically different than they are today.

I do think that nations would be wise to take greater control on immigration policies. The United States used to have such controls. We no longer take those policies seriously and we are paying a price in our nation with cultural shift, economic drain, and language difficulties in business and community.

Personally, I would rather live my life in a nation without excessive influence from Islamic forces or Islamic rule. History shows that Christians typically do not fare well in such an environment.

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We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
1644/46 LBC
My Blog - Imprimis

Right, but you are talking official governance. I'm talking about a tipping point after which there is little likelihood of return. There's plenty boiling just under the surface that we don't see.

Hi:

"When the Son of Man returns will He find faith on Earth?" Luke 18:8.

Blessings,

Rob

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In Essentials Unity, in non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity.

Robert Paul Wieland
Springs Reformed Presbyterian Church
Colorado Springs, CO RPCNA
Student at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Pittsburgh PA
Never be afraid to do something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, but professionals built the Titanic.

I don't entirely disagree with you. And also you, unlike me, are in the heart of this issue. I just feel the rhetoric is a little hotter than it is warranted to be. Yes, Europe is going to become Muslim. But is it going to be Saudi Arabian Islam or Turkish Islam? Are we sure these new Muslims won't be affected by secularism the same way Christians were?

I am very worried. I just think if we sensationalize the rhetoric too much and bend the facts too much (like the video did blatantly with Canada) people will stop taking this issue seriously.

I don't deny that at some point the church here could experience persecution (or look forward to such a possibility), but history shows us along with all this about cultures that the blood of the martyrs is the seed, not the death, of the church. I think another way of looking at this is that as they come here we have opportunities to evangelize them (as Kevin's church is doing), that we don't have in their own countries. I think we could view their 'tactic' of moving into other countries as an opportunity: God is graciously sending them to us, as they have refused to allow His messengers to go to them. I think evil is always shooting itself the foot that way -- Ruben often reminds me of the kings in Psalm 2: the 'joke' is on them because no matter what tactic they use, the ruler of the darkness of this world is already checkmated. If in Christ all families of the earth are blessed then surely all these families coming to us can be blessed in Him, too.

-----Added 4/27/2009 at 03:32:20 EST-----

(Washing dishes it occured to me that this is my main objection to the 'aura' of the video. Something that tends to stir up fear and hostility rather than helping us to view further contact with Islam as an opportunity for the church is actually working on their methodology, not the gospel's: and their methodology is bound to fail.)

What a wonderful way to consider things!

Quite true. I would say that the vast majority immigrant Muslim families in the UK/EU (and Canada, a huge destination) are fairly moderate or more or less 'secular', customary (if Mosque-going) Muslims. They aren't out to 'Islamicize' their new Western countries; they are there to get away from the Sharia mindset, and the destitute culture that goes along with it.

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Nathan Tyler
Reformed Baptist
University of Toronto (Student: Hons. B.A. in Philosophy)
Ontario, Canada

1689'er

http://nathantyler.wordpress.com

I am curious about something. If most Muslims who are emigrating to other countries are 'moderate' why is it that majority of mosques in Western countries are Wahabi? That is one of the most radical elements of Islam. I know the financial reason. The Saudis are building them. But, why would 'moderate' Muslims attend a mosque where they disagree? Why would they not supply their own Imam?

scary.

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Rangerus
Southern Baptist
Austin, TX
Teacher and Volunteer
1689 LBCF & BF&M 2000

Because they are "plants" or sleeper-cells awaiting 'the call'?

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Norm
IA PCA

In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will. Ephesians 1:4-5

Al Mohler reported the same thing on his show a couple of years ago.

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w

You know something? One man's torture is another man's glory. Why are we so afraid of the Muslims? They aren't anymore depraved and vicious than the Chinese government or North Korea's government and our brothers and sisters suffer violently under their hand. American atheists might look like us, but they will skin us just as well as a Muslim will. What's scary to everyone is that they aren't Americans or Canadians etc. We act like we own this country or Canadians own theirs etc. They are just a group of people who are looking to evangelize or kill us just like any other group of people will eventually want to do to us. Have more babies but not for this reason! God has His chosen and He has chosen their path. I'm not going to get hysterical about every nation turning into Muslims. For one thing, I don't think it could happen. I don't see it biblically. But if it does then that's God's will. We can't hold onto America so tightly...it becomes our god then. Let it go and see what God has in store for us. It's hard I know. I love freedom and wish it would stay America but I don't always get what I want. Things change all the time and they change for God's glory not because of what we want or don't want. There's a bigger reason for all of this and we don't get to vote.

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sarah
WI
OPC
My Pastor's Sermons: Mark Jenkins...he's awesome!!!

Exactly. I take every opportunity to point out that the Crusades were a response to Muslim conquest. In other words, the Muslims started it.

-----Added 4/28/2009 at 01:06:42 EST-----

Another thing: I've read a few comments about this type of video "sensationalizing" stuff as if that's a problem. No, the problem is that we're a culture in denial and this stuff isn't being reported at all and anyone who says ANYTHING is labeled a bigot or a racist... and the crazy thing is they're called this by the people who are bending over backwards to make concessions to these "peaceful invaders" naively thinking that the favor will be returned once the newcomers are the majority.

It's like the national debt. Many people - indeed, probably MOST people - don't give a rip about it because it seems like "play money." It isn't real to them. Well, these same people don't understand that our culture, our way of life, isn't in the ground, or our drinking water or the air we breathe... it is in our people. And when our people stop reproducing, and people with other values out reproduce us by leaps and bounds.... change is inevitable. But that's "silly talk" to these simple minded people who only care about being able to chat on their cell phone while they sip their latte.

Sensationalizing this stuff is a problem if it is giving misleading information. Why lie or mislead when you can make the case just as good using the truth?

And I think one of the reasons it isn't being reported is because it just oozes of right wing nut job fundy sensationalism. Take away the misleading information, lies, and just present the truth and then maybe someone high up might take this data seriously because it is very serious. This issue is too important to be treated and promoted so poorly.

I believe the muslim invasion is a judgment on our society in the West because we (as a community) have been going away from Christian standards. In America we have the blood of millions of unborn babies on our hands. We outlaw the Bible and prayer in public schools. Many states in the U.S. are making same sex marriage legal. In Canada and maybe coming soon here in the U.S. it will be illegal to preach against homosexual activity as sin. This is not a scare tactic, but it is reality. We need an awaken from God. Are we praying for it? Are we doing all that we can to be salt and light in our nations? Or are we just staying to ourselves and hoping for the best? Are we fiddling while Rome burns

We heard a lovely sermon on Romans 1 this past Sunday. I think our pastor would stroll out with the police if they came to get him for it.

I would rather have Muslim neighbors than Dan Barker neighbors...

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Steven Nemes
Phoenix, AZ

Good philosophy must exist, if for no other reason, because bad philosophy must be answered - C.S. Lewis