Not being sarcastic: can you tell me where you get that from scripture?

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Megan Meisberger
River Hills Community Church - EFCA (yes... same as charliejunfan)
Janesville, WI

Wife of matt.meisberger

<---- Naming my first son after him. My husband was saved while reading Religious Affections.

All religion and theology aside, any thing that teaches kids to be greedy should be banned and made illegal. Are there no politicians that are REAL men?

Taking off my Archie Bunker hat now.

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Thanks in Christ
Gord
RTI Student
Burlington, Ontario

By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.

This would be true several hundred years ago when Halloween actually had any religious significance. Fortunately (or unfortunately, perhaps, since it indicates a growing secularism in our society), Halloween has really become nothing more than a celebration of horror fiction and horror movies and has little to do with pagan rituals anymore. If it did, then you would be absolutely right -- we would be giving off the wrong signals in celebrating Halloween. However, I believe that as long as a person celebrates Halloween in a subdued, Christian fashion -- and yes, that means watching scary movies and enjoying ghostly tales, so long as they are not gratuitous and do not send the wrong messages -- then no pagan is going to watch your behavior and think badly of Christians. As for actual Wiccans and occultists, they're going to do what they do whether they see the next-door Christian putting a pumpkin on their porch or not.

It's interesting, though, that you mention C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, two Christian authors. Do you believe that the use of occultism in their fiction is unwarranted?

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Christabella Warren
Fourth Presbyterian Church
Bethesda, MD
========================
These evils I deserve, and more . . . . Justly, yet despair not of his final pardon, Whose ear is ever open, and his eye Gracious to re-admit the suppliant. -- John Milton's Samson Agonistes

Adam, if you re-read my post you will note that I did not say that paganism died out in the 19th century. Rather I said that it died out hundreds of years ago & was REVIVED in the 19th century.

That is something very different.

The reason that this is germain to this discussion is that the revival is based on guesses as to what paganism even looked like. Trust me modern wiccans may be very devoted to their "faith" (the ones I know are) but they are following a made-up religion. So any claim that they stake to halloween is on shaky ground. The modern folk practice of being nice to neighborhood kids is a much more authentic then any modern pagan claim.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

This article by Rev. Matthew McMahan convinced me to have nothing to do with Halloween.

The Way of the Heathen: A Brief History of Halloween

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Diane
God is Good and we're not.
All Saints Episcopal
Anchorage, AK

wow guys, sure are a lot of good articles from those who are reformed on this topic....

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Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Father of Oliver
Master of Bruce
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

What can I say, I like blogs!

I don't celebrate Halloween, but I do celebrate Reformation Day. Luther Rocks!

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Rick
Teacher/Apologist
Baptist
SE Missouri

I say this with a true respect for Reverend McMahan (whose articles I have benefitted from very much in the past), but I do not believe that he presents a convincing argument that all celebrations of Halloween are of the Devil. Rather, it appears that he sets up a straw man representation of Halloween with quotations from Satanist bibles and proceeds to tear down the straw man without addressing what Halloween actually has become to most Christians and non-Christians in the 21st century. I suppose if one actually believed that all fiction and discussions dealing with supernatural horror, regardless of their religious perspective, are inherently evil because they even mention such things, then his point would be valid. But I don't believe that such a thing has been proven yet or is supported by Scripture.

Megan,

There are a few passages:

If we partake of meat sacrificed to idols, and do so in the pagan's context, they consider this as a fellowship with their idols.

Even more to the point (about meat offered to idols) is the following:

Cheers,

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Adam B., Wine Country, California, PCA

"I fear not to hold with Junius, de Politia Mosis cap. 6, that he who was punishable by death under that Judicial law, is punishable by death still; and he who was not punished by death then, is not to be punished by death now."

Of course, occultism, if portrayed in a positive light, is evil. Lewis and Tolkein are more dangerous because they are considered (and professed to be) Christian, while promoting lawlessness. Such authors introduce people into the world of the occult and satanism. This is not surprising, since Lewis blasphemed the Holy Ghost's inspired Psalms, and Tolkein was a papist; after all, we get hocus pocus from the Idolatry of the Mass.

-----Added 10/9/2009 at 07:26:41 EST-----

Did you think that paganism has a fixed form?

Do you think they'll still go out if they have to wear snow shoes?

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Curt Lovelace
Pastor, Covenant Baptist Church (CBA)
Acton, Maine
Director, Lifework Forum
Sermons at SermonAudio.com/CBCActon
Blogging at Coffee with Curt

I know this is off-topic, but how did Lewis blaspheme the Psalms? Also, you did not answer any of my earlier points.

We do not celebrate it anymore as that it is a Roman Catholic Holy-Day. The Pagan influence is from the Celtic Samhain (pronounced sow-in) festival. The festival has aspects of a festival of the dead.



The Romanists celebrate the Patron Saints on All Saint's Day (Nov1st) and All Hallow's Eve(Oct 31st).



This is the same reason we do not celebrate Easter or Christmas. Roman Catholic amalgamations of Pagan festivals wearing a Christian Mask. (a cheaply made Christian mask cut off the back of a cereal box)

We Celebrate Reformation Day instead of Halloween.

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Jym Evans Iakobos 1071
Member: Reformation Presbyterian Church
Location: San Marcos, TX
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Bill Mencarow's Sermons
Still Water Revival Books

Halloween? Forget that. I'd rather celebrate the demise of Potpourri Plus! And if anyone thinks I'm waiting til Oct 31 each year to get my Jolly Rancher, SweeTart, Smarties, Shocktart, BlowPop fix, well... whatever.

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCGA
Facebook - The Calvinist Vent
Board Rules - Signature Rules - Suggestion Box

It is God that multiplies our sorrows.... God, as a righteous Judge, does it, which ought to silence us under all our sorrows; as many as they are, we have deserved them all, and more: nay, God, as a tender Father, does it for our necessary correction, that we may be humbled for sin, and weaned from the world by all our sorrows; and the good we get by them, with the comfort we have under them, will abundantly balance our sorrows, how greatly soever they are multiplied. - Matthew Henry

Does the potpourri cover the aroma of simmering rat brains?

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Rich Koster
1689'er
Browns Mills NJ USA
Often Goofy Reformed Eccentric
Romans 7:14-25

You'll just have to read! 'Tis not what you think.

Bu ah ha ha ha (originally posted by Austins' brother, Dr Evil, somewhere around 2002.... ignore Mr Bigglesworth's useless meows)

I think that Joshua and Rich are having Halloween without the rest of us...

One of my favorite candies comes out now. Hersey Apple Carmel kisses, yummy. Peeps, can't forget those Ah, the joy of the holidays and the candy

-----Added 10/9/2009 at 07:52:44 EST-----

I love CS Lewis and Tolkein's work, great stories. Jack's "Grief observe" help me with my parents death, God still uses his writings

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Doug
Baptist
Hemet, Ca
Old Time Radio Podcast

If the jocularity would get many freewill thinkers to understand Josh's post, I would say more jocularity and read his post twice! Good stuff.

I enjoy the works of Lewis and Tolkien as well. I actually sympathize with the points made by those who criticize works of fiction that represent the occult in a positive fashion (Harry Potter and Phillip Pullman's trilogy come up as two examples of such morally questionable fictions), but in the light of an obviously Christian context, where the reader is clearly meant to understand that the moral point-of-view of the author and the tale is Christ-centered, I believe that it depends on how the author is using the occult in his story. Are we to condemn the King Arthur tales because they have Merlin, a "good" magician (an obviously a throwback to old pagan archetypes)? Or are we to enjoy them as good stories that espouse the Christian values of chivalry and piety? Tolkien's tales are obviously set in a fantasy world that is not meant to resemble this world at all and his Gandalf fits into the Merlin mould fairly well; I cannot think of any story that C.S. Lewis ever wrote that portrays sorcery as something that a Christian ought to practice -- in fact, I think he condemns it quite severely in The Voyage of the Dawn Treader.

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~ Steven Bradford ~
Member Covenant Presbyterian, Chattanooga, TN

That's an excellent piece. I pray more Christians read it and feel conviction regarding this holiday.

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SW
Church of the Highlands, San Francisco, CA

You have not yet addressed my last post or answered any of the questions that I have asked regarding your position.

And you haven't convinced me that Halloween is an innocent fun-fest

I've made my position clear. I've acknowledged that this is a matter of conscience.

Dr. McMahan's article stands on its own; he is more knowledgable and articulate than I thus it would be vain for me to attempt to defend his position.

The very first quote in Dr. McMahan's article is from satanist Anton Levey who states, “After one's own birthday, the two major Satanic holidays are Walpurgisnacht (May 1st) and Halloween.”

So how many people on this board no longer celebrate birthdays? just curious.

And for the record I celebrate Halloween and birthdays. No walpurgisnacht though.

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Andrew S.
Covenant Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Abilene,TX

Halloween adds a L O T of candy. With other holidays, we over indulge with sweets and overeat unnecessarily. I wonder what kind of illness or aliments are caused by eating too much candy. Some things are not reversible.

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Dao
PCA
Atlanta, GA

"Free will," says Charles Spurgeon, "has carried many souls to hell but never a soul to heaven."

Hmm. Sometimes topics on the Puritan Board look so much like what the Puritans wouldn't say that it is funny...

As for me, I resist my parents urges and refuse to celebrate. I cannot do it with a right conscience.

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Jake; Hold to Original WCF, member of SBC; Greater Atlanta, Georgia Area

The cross does not give us a minor shift or two with regard to a few of our ethical and moral and religious values; the cross radically disrupts the very center and citadel of your life from self to Christ. —Albert N. Martin

Have you actually read their works? As someone who has read much of both, I would say that neither was promoting occultism in any form. In fact, both Tolkien's Middle-Earth and Lewis's Narnia portray the occult negatively (Melkor-worship causes downfall of Numenor, the attempted resurrection of the White Witch in Prince Caspian).

All that said, I have not celebrated Halloween in the past, just Reformation/All Saints Day. I'm dearly hoping that For All the Saints will be on the agenda on Sunday November 1.

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Philip
Potomac Hills Presbyterian Church (PCA) Leesburg, VA
Attending Reformed Presbyterian Church, Lookout Mountain, GA
Student Covenant College

The Importance of Being Orthodox

Seems like we all have different opinions in regards to holidays, not a bad thing in and of itself. I love to celebrate Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas with great gusto others do not that is fine to

Although the historical roots of halloween can be traced in pagan roots, I believe that the way we hold this holiday is not actually a celebraton of wicca or the like, but a time for fun for kids before the onset of winter. The name Halloween as a derivation of All Hallow's Eve and Sawhain (pronounced Sa ween) which is the Celtic New Year and not connotating evil in itself.
The simple fun that children have is just that, fun. It carries no "religious" overtones and no child will apply any. It is only over-zealous fundamentalists who do so. This attack only turns people away from Christianity and is a display of legalism devoid of grace.
I am disturbed more by proclaiming the celebration of Christ's birth a Holy day and the church setting it aside as if it were the Lord's Day. To use Christmas as a special mid-winter family day where we exchange gifts with loved ones and leave church out of it is acceptable.
I have often said that the only thing I fear more than legalist over-zealous fundamentalist Moslems are legalist over-zealous fundamentalist Christians.

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Rev. Timothy P. Cotton
Sr. Pastor, Truth and Way Ministries an online service to the Christian community
Culpeper, VA
Teacher:Culpeper Baptist Church

I loathe Halloween and devoutly ignore it. October is without question the most lovely month of the year and Halloween is a blight on it.
Why any rational person would decorate his/her dwelling with giant spiders, webs, bats, witches, goblins, and assorted demons is totally beyond me.

I believe Phillipians 4:8 is a very good reason to ignore Halloween - there is nothing "pure or lovely or of good report" connected with it.

Here on Bald Mountain our closest neighbor is a quarter of a mile away and in the ten years we've lived here we've only had one trick-or-treater show up at our door - we gently told his mother that we didn't celebrate Halloween. Living in the woods certainly has its advantages!

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Sue Scott
First Evangelical Presbyterian Church - PCA
East Liverpool Ohio

I invite you all to something much better than candy on October 30th-31st:



http://christcovenantreformedpc.org/...conf-flyer.pdf

I never celebrated halloween, partly because my parents both loathe the death symbolism that has become a part of it. Instead, our church (before we moved) used to host an All Saints' Eve party for children where there would be a theme like Pilgrims' Progress or Bible Translators. The idea was that kids could dress up and have fun without complaints from parents over any of this.

And yes, of course All Hallows Eve happens to coincide with Reformation Day.

A Bunyan-themed Halloween? What a wonderful idea!

Why not expand that to a Bunyan/bunyon-themed Halloween? That way Grandma with crazy feet can join in on the fun?

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Andrew Thornquist My Photo Album
Calvinistic Baptist
Ukiah, California
To follow Christ was the best decision God made for me!

All of this is obviously going to have to go on my list of holiday ideas for the future; along with my retelling of "The Christmas Carol" with a modern televangelist visited in the night by the three ghosts of Hugh Peters, Richard Baxter, and Solomon Stoddard...though I don't think that even that would reform most popular "preachers" these days.

There's a "fruit lady" in EVERY neighborhood!

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Rae W. | Elder @ Grace Central Presbyterian Church | Columbus, OH
Online presence: blog | twitter | facebook

There was an Irish family on my block that would give out potatoes. No joke. This is actually true.

we are talking about giving out info on the reformation with candy... I know that could go horribly wrong, but I look at it as an educational opportunity, let the kids know about the reformation and the 95 thesis. with a little scripture to go with it... Any ideas?