Emergent Church

SarahB · #1 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 04:51 PM

I'm not sure if this is the right forum to be posting this in, but I have some questions about the Emergent Church.
I have an aquaintance who has begun a home group at his house which he is calling H.11. I haven't asked for much information, for 'fear' of looking too interested. But some of the things I have read have left me unsettled. We were invited to attend one of the meetings and fortunately, my husband had no interest. The name left me feeling funny, and then, a few things that were said and that I read really unsettled me. He mentioned being spiritual savages (whatever that is!), being inspired by Erwin McManus, and something about the Mosaic Alliance. Are these things belonging to an emergent church? Do you think H.11 is part of that G.12 (government of 12) thing?
I am in no way going to participate in this, but I still would like to know what you all think.

TIA

Knoxienne · #2 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 05:07 PM

This is part 1 of a sermonaudio series about the emergent church. Hopefully it will be helpful to you: A Beginner's Guide to Understanding the Emergent Church:

SermonAudio.com - Reformed Baptist Church of Holland

I haven't heard of the specifics you mentioned, but from what I've heard, the EC is really just the social gospel and nearly if not out right socinianism just under a different name.

Praise the Lord your husband isn't interested!

LawrenceU · #3 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 05:11 PM

I doubt it is connected to a G-12 type of thing. I'd put money that H.11 stands for Hebrews 11.

Much of what you related smacks of the current (yet already passe) Wild at Heart movement. Mosaic Alliance is most definitely Emergent. Here is their website: Mosaic Alliance

Curt · #4 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawrenceU

I doubt it is connected to a G-12 type of thing. I'd put money that H.11 stands for Hebrews 11.

Much of what you related smacks of the current (yet already passe) Wild at Heart movement. Mosaic Alliance is most definitely Emergent. Here is their website: Mosaic Alliance

I went to the mosaic alliance website. Interestingly, none of their links work. Maybe there's something symbolic in that (or spooky).

LawrenceU · #5 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curt

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawrenceU

I doubt it is connected to a G-12 type of thing. I'd put money that H.11 stands for Hebrews 11.

Much of what you related smacks of the current (yet already passe) Wild at Heart movement. Mosaic Alliance is most definitely Emergent. Here is their website: Mosaic Alliance

I went to the mosaic alliance website. Interestingly, none of their links work. Maybe there's something symbolic in that (or spooky).

I had the same issue. They work and then they don't. Hmmmm....

gene_mingo · #6 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 05:51 PM

the monergism website has a few articles about the emergent church movement.

Monergism :: Emerging Church

SarahB · #7 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 06:12 PM

Thank you all for your quick replies! I hadn't even thought of Hebrews 11 for the H.11 - that's a good thought! As for Wild At Heart...I'll have to look into that. Thanks again and yes, praise God my husband hasn't talked about it or shown interest!

Michael Turner · #8 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahB

As for Wild At Heart...I'll have to look into that.

Dig through some customer reviews to see what it's all about...

Amazon

LawrenceU · #9 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Turner

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahB

As for Wild At Heart...I'll have to look into that.

Dig through some customer reviews to see what it's all about...

Amazon

this
this

.

The many copies I have been given go well right there underneath the lighter wood in the colder season of the year. One copy gets me about a month of evening fires.

Michael Turner · #10 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 07:49 PM

Jon Peters · #11 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawrenceU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Turner

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahB

As for Wild At Heart...I'll have to look into that.

Dig through some customer reviews to see what it's all about...

Amazon

this
this

.

The many copies I have been given go well right there underneath the lighter wood in the colder season of the year. One copy gets me about a month of evening fires.

I think I had a conversation with a Christian friend about this book/movement yesterday. What's the deal with it? Is it more than just embracing our manhood?

SueS · #12 (**permalink**) 08-12-2009, 10:20 PM

I did a Google search and came up with a critique by Rut Etheridge III. It's quite long but very well written, especially the final six paragraphs. Wild at Heart is not a book that people who are not already well-grounded in the Word of God should be reading.

Here's the link to the review:

www.churchofthegoodshepherd.info/WAFcritique.htm

**DMcFadden** · #13 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahB

I'm not sure if this is the right forum to be posting this in, but I have some questions about the Emergent Church.
I have an aquaintance who has begun a home group at his house which he is calling H.11. I haven't asked for much information, for 'fear' of looking too interested. But some of the things I have read have left me unsettled. We were invited to attend one of the meetings and fortunately, my husband had no interest. The name left me feeling funny, and then, a few things that were said and that I read really unsettled me. He mentioned being spiritual savages (whatever that is!), being inspired by Erwin McManus, and something about the Mosaic Alliance. Are these things belonging to an emergent church? Do you think H.11 is part of that G.12 (government of 12) thing?
I am in no way going to participate in this, but I still would like to know what you all think.

TIA

I think that the "Wild at Heart" idea might be a false lead. Mosaic is a mega church in L.A. that has a rather "distinctive" philsophy of ministry. The description given sounds like vintage Erwin McManus.

One of Erwin McManus' books was "The Barbarian Way: Unleash the Untamed Faith Within."

The description of "The Barbarian Way" reads: "Using Jesus' words about John the Baptist in Matthew 11, Erwin McManus urges readers to flee "civilized" religion and return to the "barbarian way" of following Christ . . . Barbaric Christians see Jesus differently than civilized Christians. They see disciples differently, and they see Christ's mission differently. This book is a call to escape "civilized" Christianity and become original, powerful, untamed Christians--just as Christ intended."

Vintage Mosaic speak for which McManus is famous (or infamous). I've heard Erwin speak and it wore me out.

His official bio says . . .

Quote:

Erwin Raphael McManus is an author, speaker, activist, filmmaker and innovator who specializes in the field of developing and unleashing personal and organizational creativity, uniqueness, innovation and diversity. In other words, he gets bored really easily.

Engaging such issues as culture, creativity, change, and leadership, Erwin is widely known as a thought-provoking communicator. His travels have taken him to over 30 countries and he has spoken to over a million people from a wide variety of audiences, including the NFL, Lionsgate, New Line Cinema, and ILOG. His work is featured in numerous films, articles, and magazines across the US and internationally.

Erwin also serves as the primary communicator and cultural architect of Mosaic in Los Angeles. He is the author of An Unstoppable Force, a Gold Medallion Award finalist; Chasing Daylight; Uprising: A Revolution of the Soul; The Barbarian Way; Stand Against the Wind, Soul Cravings, and Wide Awake (soon to be released in July 2008). He also serves as a Research Advisor with The Gallup Organization.

Interesting bio for a "pastor" isn't it? He "serves as the primary communicator and cultural architect of Mosaic." BTW, if you didn't get it, "Mosiac" is the name of his primary venue for "developing and unleashing personal and organizational creativity, uniqueness, innovation and diversity" . . . er . . . ah . . . I mean . . . hmmm . . . his "church." Mosaic has historical ties to the SBC, I'm not sure about that now.

If you check out their round about way of describing their doctrine, they end up -- somewhat reluctantly -- with the SBC statement:

Quote:

What is your Doctrine?
The absolute best way to understand and learn about any community is to experience it on the relational level. Statements of faith can tell you what a community of faith’s beliefs are, but they can’t tell you who they are. If you’d like to discover who we are at Mosaic, please come to one of our Gatherings on Sundays by going to our home page at www.mosaic.org.

If unable to make it to Los Angeles and you want a more in-depth and relevant look at Mosaic (e.g. our core values and philosophy of ministry), please pick up a copy of the book An Unstoppable Force, by Erwin Raphael McManus. You can get it on sale at Amazon or probably find it at any major bookstore.

If the actual “statements of faith” are what you are still interested in, please reference the Baptist Faith and Message by going to this website: http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp

**DMcFadden** · #14 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 12:33 PM

P.S. When dealing with self-professed "artists," I continually struggle to make sense out of their prose. But, since they profess to hold to the SBC's statement on doctrine, one can only assume that McManus sees himself as an innovator who "uses" creative communication to communicate the timeless message. This would make him a bit more like Kimball and less like McLaren. However, I cannot believe that his methodology doesn't impact his doctrine more than he realizes.

LawrenceU · #15 (**permalink**) 08-13-2009, 12:38 PM

You are probably right, Dennis, that Wild at Heart is not a primary thrust. But, the reason it popped out of my tired noggin is that almost all the Mosaic folks I have met are either crazy about it or embrace Eldridge's premise without knowing the work.