In this thread I wish to discuss if it is right to send our kids to youth conferences of a specific type.

I am speaking of the newer, happy-clappy type youth conference. Where the sermons are minimal and Christian rock music and videos are the focus. They are usually heavy on skits during worship. These are typically mixed-gender affairs and the target audience is usually those in their early teens.

Bands like the David Crowder band and certain Christian illusionists are the headliners.

So I will restate my question. Is is appropriate to send our children to events of the type described above?

I realize the issue of Christian liberty may come in to play in this discussion (WCF XX).

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Willie Grills
Trinity Presbyterian Church
OPC
Huntington, WV

1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.

Appropriate, yes. Popular, sure. Profitable, not likely. Wise, may God grant you wisdom to raise your children.

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Lee Dodd | Twitter: @LeeDodd
Layperson - FBC Daisetta
Dayton, TX

"We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work." - John 9:4

Thanks for the response Lee

I guess the next logical question I would ask would be; We wouldn't allow this in our church worship why would we send our children to an event where this was allowed in worship service.

I wouldn't send them. My wife attended the SBC "Fall's Creek" when she was young and said what she saw going on there was nothing that Christian children should be involved in, for the most part.

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Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
Ontario, Canada

Shouldn't do it. Wouldn't do it. Couldn't do it.

Frankly most 'youth functions', even among Reformed churches, are a useless waste of time, are child centered, entertainment driven, and serve to separate a young person from reality.

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We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
1644/46 LBC
My Blog - Imprimis

I guess it depends on what is going on at the conference. Last summer, we thought sending our daughter to an annual conference attended by a lot of the PCA churches in our area would be a good thing. Needless to say we were shocked when she came home with reports of loud, wild concerts and lots of silliness.

Contrast that with this: Our current PCA church is still small and has no youth group, so we've been allowing our daughter to attend Sunday & Wednesday youth meetings at a rather large and trendy southern Baptist church so she can be with some of her christian friends who attend there. Nothing much solid takes place at those meetings, but they are having good clean fun. Our daughter attends church with us.

You can imagine our surpise when the youth pastor chose to take the teens to a weekend youth conference at a camp I know to be quite conservative and well-chaperoned. We allowed our daughter to attend. She came home with reports of good preaching, good singing and lots of clean fun.

We certainly learned our lesson. Check things out ahead of time.

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J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

Check Out My Blog: http://reflectjoy.blogspot.com/

I fear for our youth if we send them the message that they can only learn about God if they are entertained. Indeed, the comic books we were given in Sunday School growing up went a long way toward my having a sense of unreality attached to Bible history.
I'm also very uncomfortable with co-ed camps, especially when they are supervised by people under 25 and especially in their teens.

That said, I think an outdoors setting often makes people more open to good teaching. I just got back from an excellent session for college students at Machen Retreat and Conference Center which should be pretty accessible to anyone in West Virginia. The family conferences there, and in other places, can offer good teaching and pleasant experiences with lots of supervision for those in their teens.

I guess my short answer is to check the situation thoroughly, to avoid the happy clappy scene, and to look for better alternatives.

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JWithnell
Member Bethel OPC
Virginia
http://learningyesican.blogspot.com/

I attended both good and bad youth conferences as a teen. I wouldn't write off all of them automatically. The OPC does a really good week long Bible conference for its teens in New England. I visited it with a friend (while in college) and it was excellent. Solid teaching, good music, and good fellowship. I think it can be encouraging for young people to fellowship and worship with others of like belief.

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Kathleen M
nondenominational
Montana

Are you talking about Deerwander Bible Conference? I spent 7 years at Deerwander (Junior High and High School). It was an excellent camp, I loved it.

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Dan Dorman
Member of Pilgrim OPC in my hometown-Bangor, Maine
Currently attending Christ the King OPC in Longview, Texas, where I am a college student

“The happiness of the creature consists in rejoicing in God, by which also God is magnified and exalted” -Jonathan Edwards
What is meant by "Christian Hedonism"?

Are there any christian conferences or camps that aren't co-ed?

The camps and conferences I attended as a teen (and some of them were run by the must conservative of groups) were all co-ed. Girls slept in cabins or rooms on one side of the camp, guys on the other. There was one counselor for every 8-10 teens, and they stayed in their small groups until they were safely escorted to larger group activities which were also well-chaperoned. I don't have a problem with this.

Interesting comment from my wife on this while discussing: Much of the problem with this sort of thing is that there are no expectations of the teens, they are put into a worldly context, giving them entertainment and trying to sneak in the Word. It is felt that you must entertain teens in order to give them the Word, and these sorts of camps keep them from doing drugs and having sex, so they take care of the more visible and 'problematic' sins in the church. Thus, mission accomplished (when little, if anything, has actually been accomplished).

It seems like the view taken at most of these places is that teens are without value or purpose regarding evangelism or Christian living, so let's give them what they want and add a little something religious to the mix.

Yes! I actually just responded to your visitor message. I was only there for a day, but the teaching I heard was really good and the accounts I heard from people who had attended also seemed really great.

You asked if it is appropriate to send children to such camps. I am not a parent but here's my perspective.
I never benefited in the least from the various camps my moderate Baptist church sent me off to each year of middle and high school. (Weirdly, the sole possible exception would be the year Student Life had Voddie Baucham as the speaker---he was a breath of fresh air and at the time I had no idea why!) The rest of the speakers were top names in evangelical circles, and they could capture the audience I guess, but it was so not the main focus of camp for just about anybody there. If anything, the rock concert-like worship "experience" was it, or maybe just getting to be away from home and, with minimal supervision, hang out with cute guys. Sure, our youth group had sessions each night to discuss the teaching of the day, but human nature is such that you are going to be distracted by all the other nonsense even if a) the teaching was great and b) you had a desire to know God's word.

Even in later years when I was a budding Calvinist and got a morbid enjoyment out of taking critical notes during the message (and on into the useless skits), I wouldn't say that I benefited from going, except to be able to say that I've been there (meaning broad evangelicalism), done that, and have no desire to see Reformed churches mimic it.

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Laura
member of Geneva OPC, Woodstock, GA
"Christ has done great things for his people, and he has suffered great things for his people, and he has purchased great things for his people, and he has prepared great things for his people; yet many of his own dear people are so taken up with their own hearts, and with their own duties and graces, that Christ is little eyed by them or minded by them! This is the great reason why so many Christians, who will certainly go to heaven—do walk in darkness, and lie down in sorrow." - Thomas Brooks

The way you frame the question it is hard to say anything but "no". However, I would not wish to dismiss all youth-oriented camps carte blanche. Like with churches, there tends to be a very broad range in terms of teaching, focus and style. I have been to very good and very bad ones over the years.

I think it a tough age group (both for those in it and those ministering to it) and I think they do need encouragement and teaching beyond just the regular all-age Sunday morning service. I know quite a few reformed, solid Christians who were saved whilst at a youth camp and have gone on to serve Him well. Many of them have in their 20s and 30s returned to these camps to lead them and bring a reformed viewpoint.

Granted many youth camps have a non-reformed ethos so you have to be careful with your choices. I remember when I was a teenager my well-meaning (but at that time not theologically mature) mother sent me to an Arminian summer camp. The pastor leading it spent all of his time in a heavy-handed, high pressure criticism of Calvinism and all its "errors." Fortunately my late father had drummed enough reformed theology into me that I was able to defend the reformed view of the Scriptures. However, if I had not had that background, I could easily see how the Arminian bent of that camp could have messed up my view of the Gospel.

On the other hand, I was recently at a camp (focused more on college kids) where there was the rock style music (I could take it or leave it - there are some great contemporary writers like Stuart Townend; some others less theologically sound) but the teaching was solidly reformed (including a great series on justification).

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Jon
London, UK
Ex-Redeemer PCA, Manhattan
(Now All Souls' Langham Place, London)

Well said Lawrence. And, I'm ashamed to admit, I got my first real kiss at a youth camp. Naw, wouldn't send my kids there. I suppose it could be done well though.

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For the Glory of our King,
Joe Johnson
Slave of Christ, husband, father, Preacherboy at Cornerstone Community Church, Escanaba, MI. and TMS graduate. Personal website - SoundLife.org

I do not know, and I do not say, that a person cannot believe in Revelation and in evolution, too, for a man may believe that which is infinitely wise and also that which is only asinine. ~ CHS

Wow, I really appreciate the response. I think that the general consensus is the same. That main answer being a resounding "NO" to sending children to these types of conferences.

I am still slack-jawed at the number of children allowed to attend these types of events. Seems that it could be a bad mixed of worldly entertainment and hormones.

I know of at least on youth conference and one youth group that is Christ centered. I know that these two aren't the only ones in existence. Therefore, I would not throw the baby out with the bath water on this one.

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~Gloria G.~
Bride of Warren G.
Member of Trinity Presbyterian Church, PCA, Southeast Georgia

"Turn my eyes from looking at worthless things; and give me life in your ways." Psalm 119:37

I wouldn't send my kids to one. Considering the original post, there are some major violations of the RPW going on.

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John Lanier
Elder in Training
Reformed Baptist Church
Topeka, KS

I don't know what "most" youth functions are like, but I know that what I attended was excellent and certainly not a waste of time.

Each summer in high school I attended Reformed Youth Movement (RYM), now called Reformed Youth Ministries. I believe it was originally linked with Reformed Theological Seminary, Jackson, and has grown to include reformed churches (mostly PCA) around the country.

We didn't have rock bands, illusionists, or skits, but we did have solid reformed teaching.

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Daniel
PCA
Memphis, TN

Unfortunately, it's the same message their parents get in a lot of "churches."

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Curt Lovelace
Pastor, Covenant Baptist Church (CBA)
Acton, Maine
Director, Lifework Forum
Sermons at SermonAudio.com/CBCActon
Blogging at Coffee with Curt

It is in part a resounding "NO" because of the way you framed the question. You effectively asked something along the lines of, "Do you like apricots with the odd bruise or two?"

People may have mixed views on apricots but even those who like them are probably going to pass when offered one that is bruised.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU. I didn't want to mention the name of the conference but since you have, I'll cosign on it. RYM is not a waste of time. They have great speakers, probing topics and the gospel of Christ is front and center...

I'm going to go somewhat against the grain of this thread.

If you send a child to an event run by an Arminian church (or group of churches) they will hear Arminian teaching; this hardly negates the concept of youth conferences.

During my youth I typically went to about 2 of these sorts of events a year, one run by an interdenominational evangelical group, one by an Anglican missions society. (The former was a week long youth camp, part holiday camp, part bible study, the latter a 3 day all ages conference with a separate youth part, though the youth did attend some or all of the adult Bible lectures.) I was also once a leader for a week at a different camp, which I found exhausting but beneficial. The missions society conferences inspired me to want to be a missionary (which didn't happen) and were almost entirely positive; the rest of this post will refer to the camps.

The standard of the various bible talks was not good, certainly not as good as that of my (fairly good) evangelical Anglican home church. And, yes, I sat through enumerable skits and testimonies (some good, some not) and awful songs.

On the other side, I don't remember hearing any outright heresy. I did meet a lot of other Christian youth, some of whom are now pastors and missionaries, and many more are now mature Christians. I, an extremely shy, awkward teenager, seemed to make as many friends each year in 2 weeks of camps as at 40 weeks of school. And most importantly, for about the first time in my life, at ages 15 and 16 some of the leaders there treated me as an intelligent adult who was capable of discussing theology and morality reasonably and logically, rather than a child to be patronised.

A great many teenagers heard the Gospel for the first time at these camps (usually in a simplistic way, sometimes presented very well, sometimes not at all). Many heard better preaching than they regularly received at their home churches (sad, but true.) Some understood the Gospel for the first time, though they had heard it before but never understood, some were converted, some who were already converted became motivated to stop backsliding. I don't know of any whose Christian walk was severely impeded in any way at such camps.

On the other hand, if you want to hear about Christian organisations which were worse than useless, I could tell you about some of the church schools I went to.

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T W Hopper
Member, Presbyterian Reformed Church
Currently between churches since PRC closed here - attending Crossroads Christian Church.
Canberra, Australia.

Check out:

Reformed Youth Services Homepage

Overseen by a URC consistory. Provides solid Reformed teaching and spiritual fellowship. They conduct an annual convention for high school age and 2x year retreat for post-high singles. Well attended. Both my sons have profited greatly from it.

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Mark Van Der Molen
Immanuel URC
DeMotte, Indiana