I need some advice. I am 20 and studying abroad in Québec, Canada to learn french and am single. I have been friends with this Christian francaphone girl and I like her and find myself attracted to her, but she is not very into theology as I am. She holds no heretical doctrines and is baptist like me, but can is it ok for me to date and possibly marry someday a girl who doesn't care about doctrines like predestination, the extent of the atonment, ect... if she hold fast to all the essentials? Thanks.

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Joseph P. Grigoletti II
Lay-person
Église Réformée du Québec
Québec, Québec Canada

''Nothing is so sacred that Satan will not invade it. In fact, the more sacred something is, the more he desires to profane it.''
John MacArthur

Short answer; Yes.

What school are you a student at? Where do you go to church?

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

who has to make sure every little doctrine is lined up on first date...guess what...he's still single at 42!

I think, a long time ago, on the boards here, somebody said, make sure, they will submit, to where you want to go to church...and of course, she shows fruit of being a Christian, and the rest will be fine.

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WWW.SURFWRITERS.BLOGSPOT.COM
Trevor
Christian/Husband/Father/Writer/Teacher--
--In that order.
Bethany Church, Sierra Madre, CA.
God is my King
"You've got to accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative, latch on to the affirmitive, and don't mess with Mr. in-between." Tony Bennett.

Good advice.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

I am a member of the local Church in Springfield,IL. I am a member of Dr. Curt Daniel's church. Most of you are familiar with him because of his series "The History and Theology of Calvinism" MP3 Series, book outline, and for a few of you He is considered one of the top experts of John Gill and Hyper Calvinism. I am studying abroad and not a member of a local Church because I do not believe one can be a member of two churches legitametly. However, I am attending a Reformed Baptist Church and hang out with some OPC people.

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Joseph P. Grigoletti II
Lay-person
Église Réformée du Québec
Québec, Québec Canada

''Nothing is so sacred that Satan will not invade it. In fact, the more sacred something is, the more he desires to profane it.''
John MacArthur

My only question is: are you just interested in having fun or are you seriously interested in this girl?

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DAVIDIVS DOCTVS VTRIVSQVE LINGVAE
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

The first question that you must ask yourself is: Am I ready to be married right now (whether to this girl or any other)?

Followup questions that must be asked:

Can I financially support a girl I marry right now?
Can I catechize and be a spiritual leader in my house if I were to get married now?

After that ask these:
Can I see myself marrying this girl that I am thinking about (especially since I have been around her for awhile) right now?

If the answer is 'no' to any of these, then you should not be dating or seeking a relationship at this time.

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Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

Not all Christians are as keenly interested in theology as others; but this should not surprise us as there is a variety of gifts in the church (1 Cor. 12). If you are going to get married, you are to be the spiritual leader in the home, so having a girlfriend who knows less theology than you is no bad thing. The experience you get instructing her will help to prepare your for instructing your children (if you are blessed with any).

At the end of the day, the only absolute qualification is that the other person is a Christian. If you are physically attracted to her, and you think she would (eventually) make you a good wife, then go for it. Don't be too fussy, there are not that many nice Christian girls out there who are still single.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

The answerer is yes to all of them except the fun part. I don't know if I would marry her now, but how am I to know unless we date? Of course I want fun (holesome fun). Go on dates, ice skating, doing french homework together, ect... I don't see anything wrong with that. I can be the spiritual head of the house hold, though I must confess I'm a bit more timid by nature so she will need to help me in that area. And please nobody link to Paul Washer's sermon on dating. I have listened to it and I will flat out say I disagree with him, even though I like him.

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Joseph P. Grigoletti II
Lay-person
Église Réformée du Québec
Québec, Québec Canada

''Nothing is so sacred that Satan will not invade it. In fact, the more sacred something is, the more he desires to profane it.''
John MacArthur

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply with my question that you have to already know that she's the one. The more important question right now is whether you want to pursue marriage at all. In other words, would you be dating her to find out whether she's the one you'll marry?

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DAVIDIVS DOCTVS VTRIVSQVE LINGVAE
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

I agree with this completely. The very first question hits the nail on the head and the others follow just fine. Getting emotionally attached or allowing a woman to get emotionally attached to you, whom you have no intention of marrying can be dangerous and even cruel to be honest. Take it from me...I'm speaking from experience here.

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~Gloria G.~
Bride of Warren G.
Member of Trinity Presbyterian Church, PCA, Southeast Georgia

"Turn my eyes from looking at worthless things; and give me life in your ways." Psalm 119:37

I believe I could marry her. If we date I would have the intention of hoping it would lead to it unless there came up a serious problem.

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Joseph P. Grigoletti II
Lay-person
Église Réformée du Québec
Québec, Québec Canada

''Nothing is so sacred that Satan will not invade it. In fact, the more sacred something is, the more he desires to profane it.''
John MacArthur

hhmmmm. What do you consider "the essentials" to be. Things like TULIP are just a brief summary of the Bible's teaching. Does she have a hunger for the Word? If so, does she have any interest in studying it, such as Ephesians 1, Romans 9, etc?

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Andrew Moody
Pastor - Christ Covenant OPC - Amarillo, TX
Director - Amarillo Theological Institute
Owner - Reformation Art
Amarillo Reformed Fellowship

Can you love someone?

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Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

I would not consider the Canons of Dorydt essentials to salvation. I do believe Arminians may be saved. Her theology is inline very much in the Norman Geisler tradition (only she at least doesn't call herself a "moderate calvinist" like Storman Geisler does LOL). The essentials are: Trinity, Deity of Jesus Christ (and the incarnation),the sinlesness of Christ, inerancy and infability of scripture, sola fide, sola gratia, (the other solas also), the bodily resserection of Chirst, and the literal 2nd coming of Jesus.

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Joseph P. Grigoletti II
Lay-person
Église Réformée du Québec
Québec, Québec Canada

''Nothing is so sacred that Satan will not invade it. In fact, the more sacred something is, the more he desires to profane it.''
John MacArthur

What I was trying to get at is your meaning in the above quote. What do you mean specifically by "she doesn't care about doctrines such as..."

Do you mean she doesn't believe them? Or that she believes them, but isn't interesting in staying up all night discussing things like infralapsarian vs. supralapsarian views on the decree? Is it that she's just not as "on fire" about them, or that she she thinks them unimportant, or disregards them altogether?

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Andrew Moody
Pastor - Christ Covenant OPC - Amarillo, TX
Director - Amarillo Theological Institute
Owner - Reformation Art
Amarillo Reformed Fellowship

Hey Jess!


On the topic: If she's saved, willing to submit and has a fair grasp on the essentials..... and you're SERIOUS about pursuing her knowing that the ultimate goal of this is marriage, pursue.

If it's only about having companionship for a time and maybe look at marriage later..... DON'T.

You have no right to her heart or to try winning her heart if you're not willing to keep it.

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K. Joel Gilliard
Theologically Correct dot Com
http://www.theologicallycorrect.com
Sunday School Teacher (Elementary 2), Gaithersburg Community Church (EFCA)
http://www.gchurch.org
The Blog: THINK! - Wrestlin' With Wordz -N- Ideaz
The Upcoming CD: The Definition

"First he must choose his love, then he must love his choice" Henry Smith

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Scottish Reformed Baptist No.2
member,Thurso Baptist Church
Scotland

specialist subject: Creationist Genetics
interests: holiness

Relationships can be very tricky. As far as this girl not holding to the Reformed Confessions I would not bake that into essential element of what needs to be central in the relationship. Although we are Reformed and as Reformed believers we hold strong to doctrines that have ramifications in our lives, they don't damn us if we don't hold to them, just alter our way of thinking of the Master to a more Christ centered way. Although I do agree that there are potential dangers in giving your heart to someone when your are not ready to marry, God is still gracious. I say this cause prior to becoming Reformed, I used to try to have all of my moral ducks in a row in preparation for marriage. There is an opposite danger that is really never talked about in evangelical circles and that is the danger of meticulously making sure that you have all of your moral and financial ducks in a row when all of the while your urges are being shoved and buried in your soul ready to rear it's ugly head when you least expect it. Before we get our moral ducks together, we need to remind ourselves that God is gracious. I love what Mike Horton said on a White Horse Inn broadcast. He said "our biggest problem isn't that we keep on sinning, our biggest problem is that we keep disbelieving the gospel". I know that as I bask in the Biblical gospel as found in Reformed soteriology, I'll get stronger just as I have in the past 3 years. People who come out of these (evangelical) circles, have come out with despair and some thankfully to learn of the doctrines of Grace and to place there trust in Christ for their sanctification rather than putting trust in moralistic codes like I have that have brought me to my despair.

I would leave you with this, Work out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is God that works in you both to will and to do.

Brother, if this girl is a Christian, a godly woman, respects you, and is willing to submit to you, marry her. Please find a good pastor to take you through marriage preparation courses before marriage. If this girl submits to you and has a teacheable spirit she will certainly come to understand Calvinism and the glorious doctrines of the reformed faith. May the Lord bless you in your decision.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:

One question you might want to ask is how her parents feel about a Reformed guy being with their daughter. If this was already covered, I apologize. But I have only ever been in one relationship, and her dad eventually cut it off because I was Reformed. Trust me, it's a lot of pain, and it's no fun at all. And unless you're willing to go against what her dad says (something I wouldn't generally recommend, and in my case did not do), it won't really work out.

I'm not saying to forget it. But trust me, getting involved with someone whose family is not ok with your theology can be simply painful.

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Joel S.
St. Paul's Presbyterian Church (Orlando, FL)
M.Div. Student, RTS Orlando, Oviedo, FL

However, many people who are not reformed have not even investigated it at all. So it is not that they disagree, but rather because they have never been exposed to this theology and don't understand that it is important, or even that it exists at all!

Before I became reformed, I didn't even know that there was all this out there!

But I think it is important for a wife to know where her husband will be leading her theologically. Decide where you want to go and see if she wants to come along.

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Tim Lindsay
member, Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, Halifax, NS, Canada
Living in Cape Town, South Africa
"at the foot of Table Mountain, not far from the Cape of Good Hope"