Thread: Having Children and Fiscal Responsibility

I don't think finances should enter into your equation. Our tax return paid for the deductible for having our son, and our friends and family have been more than generous to us. We've not been financially burdened at all.

I feel that in many instances, finances is an excuse Christians give in order to "family plan". In reality, they don't want a child, and finances is the most readily available excuse that can't be independently verified. I have also found that those who engage in this tend to have more problems when they finally decide that they want children, either having difficulty conceiving or having their womb closed entirely. The most likely physical cause being birth control. It's unnatural and unhealthy.

Don't let your vision be blurred by finances.

I'll never understand the lure of Calvinism for people who think God is too puny to not provide for something so basic.

Originally Posted by Zenas

I don't think finances should enter into your equation. Our tax return paid for the deductible for having our son, and our friends and family have been more than generous to us. We've not been financially burdened at all.

I feel that in many instances, finances is an excuse Christians give in order to "family plan". In reality, they don't want a child, and finances is the most readily available excuse that can't be independently verified. I have also found that those who engage in this tend to have more problems when they finally decide that they want children, either having difficulty conceiving or having their womb closed entirely. The most likely physical cause being birth control. It's unnatural and unhealthy.

We have never been financially ready for children and we still aren't. The Lord does and will provide. We had two while we had health insurance and two when we had none. I have stayed at home even in very difficult financial struggles and the Lord has never failed us. Our needs have always been met and our children have never gone hungry or without the things they need.

Originally Posted by Grillsy

Or to be more specific should the state of one's bank account determine whether or not a couple has children?

Certainly not.

Is God sovereign or is he not?

If a couple is waiting to have "enough" money, there never will be. Crushing debt may not be ideal, but in most cases, the money is there--you'll just change how you spend it. I'm not yet seven months pregnant with our first and already our priorities have radically shifted.

Hey Everyone!

I think we need to be careful of confusing Calvinism with fatalism. We are not saying that you can just jump off of a cliff, because we trust in God to provide us with safety. Yes, God provides for us, but he has also told us not to put him to the test [Luke 4:9-12].

That being said, as with most things in life, you will never have every i dotted and every t crossed. The way it was put to me is that you should have a realistic way of supporting a child. If you have realistic means, don't worry about the details.

God Bless,
Adam

Children are a gift from the Lord, not a finacial liability. God will provide as your family expands.

-----Added 11/24/2009 at 09:29:54 EST-----

With regards to having children at what point is it appropriate to consider having children.

As an appendix to my previous remark, let me add that the answer to this question is, "As soon as you say 'I do.'"

If you look at Genesis 2 you will find that procreation is part of God's intent for marriage. While I do not wish to enter into the debate about the morality of birth control at this point, I would point out that those who continue to stave off having children are not only robbing themselves of the blessing of God, but in fact running counter to God's design for marriage.

Kevin,

Yes, children are a gift from the Lord, but God as also called us to be good stewards of what he has given us. The point is that one could argue that it is possible to not be a good steward of the gift of procreation.

Secondly, I don't know where in Genesis 2 you are saying the Bible talks about procreation. Genesis 1:28 does, but that is referring to mankind, not individuals. I would say that, in terms of individual marriages, there is no passage of scripture that says that procreation is part of God's design for individual marriages.

God Bless,
Adam

Originally Posted by Grillsy

should the state of one's bank account determine whether or not a couple has children?

If you're going to let your bank account determine when to do something, it should be when to marry. You shouldn't be getting married if you do not have the means to provide for a wife AND the children which may quickly follow.

With that said, I am probably in the minority on the PB who thinks there is a time an place for fiscal responsibility in terms of the number of children you have and their spacing. But I wouldn't let finances deter you from initially having children.

Originally Posted by Hebrew Student

Kevin,

Yes, children are a gift from the Lord, but God as also called us to be good stewards of what he has given us. The point is that one could argue that it is possible to not be a good steward of the gift of procreation.

Secondly, I don't know where in Genesis 2 you are saying the Bible talks about procreation. Genesis 1:28 does, but that is referring to mankind, not individuals. I would say that, in terms of individual marriages, there is no passage of scripture that says that procreation is part of God's design for individual marriages.

God Bless,
Adam

Genesis 1:28. Typo. My bad. But look, if Creation principles are not normative for individuals, then words have no meaning (take 2:24 for instance and argue it is not normative) and our theology of Sabbath, marriage, and vocation are seriously compromised.

From my judgment, as some have alluded to, deep concerns about finances and having children is a smokescreen for deeper sin issues in the heart. So, whenever the discussion has come up between myself and my friends, I want to work towards helping them see what the core issues are. Are they not trusting God? To just tell them to stop being dumb and trust God seems to miss the whole tenor of the counsel of God that seeks to uproot the sin and implant godliness (the "put off"/"put-on" language in Ephesians 4). Or maybe they're making finances the issue to divert attention away from their abusive family history and fears that they'll be like their parents. I don't know, but especially in America, from my experience "financial concerns" is a mask their sin/unbelief in some capacity in their heart is wearing. So the call here is to "admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all" (1 Thes. 5:14).

All that said, I do think there are legitimate circumstances where one could, in wisdom, assess their situation and come to the position that it might be better to wait on trying for children for a prescribed season of time for the purpose of more intently addressing particular areas of concern. So, the one I've encountered the most is a couple who has X amount of debt. The wisest thing for them to do might be to order their finances so that they can kill that debt quickly so that they might be in a better financial standing to go on to one income when/if the Lord blesses them with children.

That is the sort of financial situation where I can understand waiting on trying for children. But those situations are hardly the majority on this issue. Usually people have mistaken priorities when it comes to the sphere of family, and they simply need the Gospel changing their perspective to see Jesus and his Word as their final rule and guide. That's the only thing I'd add here - otherwise I'd fully agree with everything stated here thus far.

Kevin,

I would argue that Genesis 2:24 is not norminative. Most Hebrew scholars do not even believe these are commands. Consider how the phrase 'al ken is used at the end of narratives in the book of Genesis:

Genesis 10:8-9 Now Cush became the father of Nimrod; he became a mighty one on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD; <b><i>therefore it is said</b></i>, "Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the LORD."

Notice how, because Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord, people say the phrase mentioned.

Numbers 21:13-14 rom there they journeyed and camped on the other side of the Arnon, which is in the wilderness that comes out of the border of the Amorites, for the Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab and the Amorites. 14 <b><i>Therefore it is said</b></i> in the Book of the Wars of the LORD, "Waheb in Suphah, And the wadis of the Arnon,

Again, because of the journeying of the Israelites, you have this phrase written in the Book of the Wars of the Lord. This is a constant refrain in the usage of this phrase plus the imperfect throughout narrative literature. It is not being used to command anything, but, rather, it is being used to explain why it is that something happens today. Why is it that we look around and we see men leaving their mothers and fathers, and cleaving to their wife? It is because of what happened in this narrative in the garden of Eden. Whether or not this is norminative is not part of the text.

Now, as far as the rest of the things you brought up, the context is not mankind. In fact, the Sabbath is in such a context so as even God rests. As far as vocation goes, again, it was to actual individual humans that work was commanded, and not to mankind. As far as marriage, I don't see how that is compromised. It *would* mean that not everyone is commanded to get married, and it would mean that not everyone is commanded to have children. However, given the usage of this phrase in Genesis 1:28 in covenantal contexts throughout the rest of the pentatuch, I think it could be argued [and, indeed, I have argued] that, just as we have elders and deacons in every communion, we must have people who are about the task of having and raising covenant children.

Again, there is no question that there are creation ordinances. However, like everything else, we need to look to the text itself to see how they are to be applied.

God Bless,
Adam

I am pretty much too pragmatic and that is my personal struggle but I have seen poor families (less than 30K a year) survive with little struggle and pay their tithes and have 4 kids with one of the way. After the first kid hand-me-downs are good, you can buy used clothes cheap, receive cheap clothes from church friends, and if you don't have a problem making the kids share a room and take baths together while they are still young you don't have to worry about too high of water bills and house size (relatively speaking). And there is always family help and I am sure they would be helpful for babysitting etc... the local church can help provide cheap babysitters if there is a need (thank God for teenagers eh...). So I say trust in the providence of God, get that covenant child baptized and be a good parent

Originally Posted by Hebrew Student

I think we need to be careful of confusing Calvinism with fatalism. We are not saying that you can just jump off of a cliff, because we trust in God to provide us with safety. Yes, God provides for us, but he has also told us not to put him to the test [Luke 4:9-12].

Did you really just liken having children to jumping off a cliff? The two are not the same, my friend. One is foolishness and a violation of the 6th Commandment, the other is a gift from the Lord, not to be despised, but embraced. Having children is not putting Him to the test since He is the very One Who gives said gift. No offense, but that's a terrible comparison.

Joshua,

Did you really just liken having children to jumping off a cliff? The two are not the same, my friend. One is foolishness and a violation of the 6th Commandment, the other is a gift from the Lord, not to be despised, but embraced. Having children is not putting him to the test. No offense, but that's a terrible comparison.

No, I likened jumping off a cliff to having children when you only have $25 extra dollars a month to take care of them.

A better way of explaining it would be this. Jumping is not putting God to the test. Jumping off of a cliff is. Having children is not putting God to the test. Having children when you only have $25 a month is. Why? Because they are not being good stewards of what God has given you.

God Bless,
Adam

Originally Posted by Hebrew Student

A better way of explaining it would be this. Jumping is not putting God to the test. Jumping off of a cliff is. Having children is not putting God to the test. Having children when you only have $25 a month is. Why? Because they are not being good stewards of what God has given you.

God Bless,
Adam

I disagree. You're comparing something that is *only* commended in Scripture (married folks having children), to something that is forbidden in Scripture (violating the 6th Commandment). Stewardship has to do with not spending the money one has unwisely, and never is married couples having children described as unwise, foolish, bad planning, etc. in Scripture. It's only commended. If God calls children a gift, and He alone opens and closes the womb, do you really think He considers it bad stewardship when He determines to give said gift? I think not.

Joshua,

Can you give me an example of where reading the scriptures is ever condemned in scripture? The reading of God's word is likewise something that is always commended. Of course, what would happen if the person read the scriptures to the point where they did not ever work to take care of their family? God does not have to lay out every possible example of putting him to the test. He expects us to be able to do exegesis to understand exactly how we are to apply these things. I would contend that, not only is this a misuse of the statements of Children as a blessing in the Bible, but it is also ignoring the clear command that God is not to be put to the test.

Secondly, I do believe God opens and closes the womb but, again, not without means. That is why I would say this position is entirely fatalistic. That is why I say it is bad stewardship to ignore this simple fact.

God Bless,
Adam

I'm uncomfortable with any thinking that would lead to evaluating children on the basis of what they 'cost' -- as if they could 'cost' too much, or not be worth it.

I believe our obligation to the sixth commandment (which also has a positive aspect) comes into play more with regard to the serious health considerations that are sometimes involved in this decision. It is not 'lack of faith' to act in obedience to God's commands in the realm of what is already given and revealed, rather than reckoning on the miraculous or the potential. There is reason for great charity in this area because God deals us differently, but one is not in such a case trying to assess a child's worth, or partaking of a prevailing mindset that regards a child as a mitigated blessing -- rather one is seeking to obey God's law out of gratitude for all His blessings (and in this scenario, sometimes it 'costs' much more -- not merely financially -- for a couple to try not to have children).

Originally Posted by Hebrew Student

Joshua,

Can you give me an example of where reading the scriptures is ever condemned in scripture? The reading of God's word is likewise something that is always commended. Of course, what would happen if the person read the scriptures to the point where they did not ever work to take care of their family?

Another poor comparison. Because you're speaking directly to something that would be a violation of God's Law. When you neglect your duties of provision for family, etc. because you're reading Scripture "too much," then you're showing you don't really believe what you're reading, since you'd be denying the very practice your reading commends. Neglect is shown as a negative thing all throughout Scripture. Not so with married folks having children. Neglect is never commended. Having children in the Lord is always in a favorable light.

God does not have to lay out every possible example of putting him to the test. He expects us to be able to do exegesis to understand exactly how we are to apply these things. I would contend that, not only is this a misuse of the statements of Children as a blessing in the Bible, but it is also ignoring the clear command that God is not to be put to the test.

And me thinks your exegesis on this is horrendous, because you're taking subject matter of a gift that God gives, but saying that it's putting God to the test at times. In other words, bearing children is never presented in a negative light in Scripture. God is the opener and closer of the womb. Children are a blessing from the Lord. No negatives there. None. Yet you would liken God giving a couple children to putting Himself to the test (via the people to Whom He has given said gift). That just doesn't follow, Friend.

Secondly, I do believe God opens and closes the womb but, again, not without means.

Right. Sexual union between man and wife. And that should happen regularly, except when it's paused for prayer, etc.

a mere housewife,

The problem comes in taking care of that child's health. It requires money. So, when it comes to health, one could argue that it plays a very key role in what we are talking about.

Also, I would point out that there are many things that are spoken of as a blessing in the Bible that require finances in order to care for. For example, cattle are called blessings, as are crops. Is that to say that we need to be a cattle rancher, even if we cannot afford it, because God has called cattle a blessing? Are we to say that we must be a farmer, because God has called crops a blessing, even though we cannot afford it?

God Bless,
Adam

-----Added 11/24/2009 at 10:57:32 EST-----

Joshua,

Another poor comparison. Because you're speaking directly to something that would be a violation of God's Law. When you neglect your duties of provision for family, etc. because you're reading Scripture "too much," then you're showing you don't really believe what you're reading, since you'd be denying the very practice your reading commends. Neglect is shown as a negative thing all throughout Scripture. Not so with married folks having children. Neglect is never commended. Having children in the Lord is always in a favorable light.

Of course, what I am arguing is that having children when you have no possible way of taking care of them *is* a direct violation of the commandment to not put God to the test. The point is that, just because you find something that is always commended in scripture, that does not mean that it cannot be done so as to violate God's law. That is the point.

And me thinks your exegesis on this is horrendous, because you're taking subject matter of a gift that God gives, but saying that it's putting God to the test at times. In other words, bearing children is never presented in a negative light in Scripture. God is the opener and closer of the womb. Children are a blessing from the Lord. No negatives there. None.

And nor are there any negatives ever spoken of to reading the text of scripture. It is always something that is commended. The point is that whether or not something is sin depends, not just upon what you do, but your intent, and the context in which you do it.

That brings me to my major exegetical challange. Show me where, in any of the texts that say that children are a blessing, where finances are even begun to be discussed. It is not speaking about this in the context of stewardship. It is speaking about it in the context of the inherent goodness of the child, and of having children. Finances are not even part of the discussion. Hence, why are you using passages that do not even address the issue we are talking about?

Right. Sexual union between man and wife. And that should happen regularly, except when it's paused for prayer, etc.

And many other natural things that cause a woman to not conceive. I would argue that contraception is just one more means that God uses to close the womb.

God Bless,
Adam

Originally Posted by Hebrew Student

a mere housewife,

The problem comes in taking care of that child's health. It requires money. So, when it comes to health, one could argue that it plays a very key role in what we are talking about.

Also, I would point out that there are many things that are spoken of as a blessing in the Bible that require finances in order to care for. For example, cattle are called blessings, as are crops. Is that to say that we need to be a cattle rancher, even if we cannot afford it, because God has called cattle a blessing? Are we to say that we must be a farmer, because God has called crops a blessing, even though we cannot afford it?

God Bless,
Adam

Adam, I don't really have the heart to argue this issue. I put forward my view because in the last discussion I felt very badly for women whose situations were not adequately represented -- the discussion often gets polarised into two positions, arguing over whether children are always or only sometimes a blessing. I merely wanted to point out that the real position of some of us is that children are always a blessing, but we must obey the law of God. Thanks sincerely.

I think it just happens when God wants it to happen. Neither of my kids were realy planned. And I was in terrible financial shape both times, but today I have two healthy boys of 12 and 3.

Children are a great blessing from the Lord. They are priceless family members that God gives to you.

There is no correct financial situation in which to have a child. Finances change all the time anyway. Financial stability is an illusion.

I don't think I have ever met a family within the church that had so many children that the Lord didn't provide for them.

What about marrying and having children when the man is completely financially unstable at the start and has shown no history of financial responsibility (i.e. no job, or only part time work, minimum waged hourly job, and/or no stable employment history)?

Or should that man even think about getting married and starting a family if he's still living at home with no job (or underemployed to barely support himself)?

I know the Lord provides, but miracles are things not promised. I want to be a stay at home mother and I want as many children as God will allow my body to handle (I have health predispositions that could put the cost for child birth at insane levels while taking a huge toll on my body), but could a woman like me realistically marry and begin having children with a man who pulls in about $1000 a month?

Unless you're living on self-sustainable land with no electricity or plumbing and have means to hunt for food, I don't think, realistically, $1000 a month will cover the cost of raising a family. Now I could be wrong, and maybe there are families out there who do just that in this country.

But, in this instance, would it be wiser to trust God to make it happen or wiser to wait for that man to bring in sufficient income to provide for a family (and I'm not talking about an upper middle class lifestyle by any means, I think 30,000 is sufficient for a family of 3-5)? Am I just being one of those people who's God is too small in this regard? Or in this instance would I have just cause to wait? I've heard the phrase, "if you don't think you're ready to have children, you're not ready to be married" and I pretty much agree with it. Do you agree?

I would also add that I don't think that personal stories are helpful in this. For every example where someone had children in total financial straits, and it worked out, you can find someone who chose to have children in total fiancial straits, and it did not work out. Jehovah's Witnesses are very good at this. They will point to the examples of refusing blood transfusions that have worked out ignoring the many other examples where the person has ended up dead.

I think, ultimately, neither side is going to convince the other side. We are going to just have to do what we believe to be faithful to God's word, and recognize that we will have to answer to God for whatever we choose to do.

God Bless,
Adam

OK, I sat this one out so far because in the last thread on this sort of thing I got a little agitated, ended up writing the exact opposite of how I felt, and now feel like the PB WOF mascot.

However, I will say this: It is impossible to raise 10 children on what I make. Simply impossible. God has provided at every single turn and will continue to do so. My wife is now pregnant with our 11th. We follow 1 Cor 7. God has sovereignty over my wife's womb, not me. He has blessed this course of action. Be faithful.

-----Added 11/24/2009 at 11:17:11 EST-----

But, in this instance, would it be wiser to trust God to make it happen or wiser to wait for that man to bring in sufficient income to provide for a family (and I'm not talking about an upper middle class lifestyle by any means, I think 30,000 is sufficient for a family of 3-5)? Am I just being one of those people who's God is too small in this regard? Or in this instance would I have just cause to wait? I've heard the phrase, "if you don't think you're ready to have children, you're not ready to be married" and I pretty much agree with it. Do you agree?

I make just under $40K. So yes, in Christian love, I think that for some reason you feel that God is OK handling your eternal soul, but not your uterus. It may take your savings, it may take your life, but He is always faithful.

Originally Posted by kvanlaan

-----Added 11/24/2009 at 11:17:11 EST-----

But, in this instance, would it be wiser to trust God to make it happen or wiser to wait for that man to bring in sufficient income to provide for a family (and I'm not talking about an upper middle class lifestyle by any means, I think 30,000 is sufficient for a family of 3-5)? Am I just being one of those people who's God is too small in this regard? Or in this instance would I have just cause to wait? I've heard the phrase, "if you don't think you're ready to have children, you're not ready to be married" and I pretty much agree with it. Do you agree?

I make just under $40K. So yes, in Christian love, I think that for some reason you feel that God is OK handling your eternal soul, but not your uterus. It may take your savings, it may take your life, but He is always faithful.

I don't have any savings. I make $1200 a month on my own and ends just barely meet, I found myself having to take out small student loans to stay in the black and not the red. I wouldn't consider myself a shopper or impulse buyer. I'm a pretty careful planner and I budget like crazy. But, my engagement ended over this issue. And now I'm wondering if I made a mistake and should have ignored completely any indicators of financial responsibility and just gotten married and started having children immediately. Not trying to hijack the thread, but I think its still on topic.

Originally Posted by Simply_Nikki

Originally Posted by kvanlaan

-----Added 11/24/2009 at 11:17:11 EST-----

But, in this instance, would it be wiser to trust God to make it happen or wiser to wait for that man to bring in sufficient income to provide for a family (and I'm not talking about an upper middle class lifestyle by any means, I think 30,000 is sufficient for a family of 3-5)? Am I just being one of those people who's God is too small in this regard? Or in this instance would I have just cause to wait? I've heard the phrase, "if you don't think you're ready to have children, you're not ready to be married" and I pretty much agree with it. Do you agree?

I make just under $40K. So yes, in Christian love, I think that for some reason you feel that God is OK handling your eternal soul, but not your uterus. It may take your savings, it may take your life, but He is always faithful.

I don't have any savings. I make $1200 a month on my own and ends just barely meet, I found myself having to take out small student loans to stay in the black and not the red. I wouldn't consider myself a shopper or impulse buyer. I'm a pretty careful planner and I budget like crazy. But, my engagement ended over this issue. And now I'm wondering if I made a mistake and should have ignored completely any indicators of financial responsibility and just gotten married and started having children immediately. Not trying to hijack the thread, but I think its still on topic.

I just want to echo Daniel's statement that the time to consider these issues is before marriage, rather than after. (which is what you did). If you don't have enough money to have kids than you probably don't have enough money to get married. (Because even if you do use birth control, you could get pregnant anyway).

I'm in the same situation myself.

Originally Posted by kvanlaan

OK, I sat this one out so far because in the last thread on this sort of thing I got a little agitated, ended up writing the exact opposite of how I felt, and now feel like the PB WOF mascot.

However, I will say this: It is impossible to raise 10 children on what I make. Simply impossible. God has provided at every single turn and will continue to do so. My wife is now pregnant with our 11th. We follow 1 Cor 7. God has sovereignty over my wife's womb, not me. He has blessed this course of action. Be faithful.

-----Added 11/24/2009 at 11:17:11 EST-----

But, in this instance, would it be wiser to trust God to make it happen or wiser to wait for that man to bring in sufficient income to provide for a family (and I'm not talking about an upper middle class lifestyle by any means, I think 30,000 is sufficient for a family of 3-5)? Am I just being one of those people who's God is too small in this regard? Or in this instance would I have just cause to wait? I've heard the phrase, "if you don't think you're ready to have children, you're not ready to be married" and I pretty much agree with it. Do you agree?

I make just under $40K. So yes, in Christian love, I think that for some reason you feel that God is OK handling your eternal soul, but not your uterus. It may take your savings, it may take your life, but He is always faithful.

You have so many children that it may be necessary for you to work two jobs until a few of them grow up and leave. Is it possible for you to work 16 hours a day 5 days a week? You could probably double your income.

Wow. Thanks for all the response. I certainly agree that God is willing and able to provide. At the same time we still look both ways before crossing the street.
Is it safe to say that finances should NEVER come into play?

I am not trying to be offensive. That is a serious question. There is no need to feel like my questions are attacks.

Grillsy,

I would say that they should come into play, but not near to the extent that they are coming into play in today's society. We are a very materialistic society, and I think a lot of what we are seeing here is a reaction against those who would not have children because they want the most expensive and best of everything for their child.

God Bless,
Adam

Originally Posted by Grillsy

Wow. Thanks for all the response. I certainly agree that God is willing and able to provide. At the same time we still look both ways before crossing the street.
Is it safe to say that finances should NEVER come into play?

I am not trying to be offensive. That is a serious question. There is no need to feel like my questions are attacks.

Here's the way I see it. Just be prepared. If you don't have a work skill, get one. Be ready and willing to work and when you have a job do it right. Keep up to date. If you have a work skill, use your brain, and are willing to move to a location where you can work, then you will be fine.

God will provide and has already provided. He has already given us bodies designed for work and a brain to use. We can't sit still and wait for God to help us, and blame him when we don't do our part. He helps us by making us able to help ourselves.

The question of whether "family planning" is biblical is huge and many smarter and more experienced than me have addressed it. But...

Originally Posted by Hebrew Student

I would also add that I don't think that personal stories are helpful in this.

(Adam, don't read this! )

I have to give my personal testimony to this, because I have to praise God openly for His incredible provision. My husband was in graduate school with two years left when we were convicted that we were putting off having a family because we didn't trust God. We searched the scriptures, and all we could find about children was positive (a gift, and inheritance) and all we found about God was that He is in control of such things (He opens and closes the womb). So it seemed to us inappropriate to take measures to prevent a child - even though we weren't in an ideal financial situation. We prayed, we were honestly really nervous sometimes, but chose to trust that God wouldn't give us a child that He didn't mean for us to have. He gave us one pretty quickly!

God provided for us in those very lean years. We didn't have everything we wanted, but we had everything we really needed. We didn't have good health insurance, we didn't have the beautiful ideal nursery, new clothes, or nights out. But it caused us to look to the Lord for provision in a way we wouldn't have if we had had financial abundance. We always had the basics.
There was a lot of personal discipline as well, but we saw God provide so much - it reminded me much of George Muller's experience.

I give this experience in case you are in the same situation we were in - we knew no one who had chosen to have children (or to not prevent it anyway) at such an inconvenient time. There were few encouragers to us. So I want to encourage you that God really is able to work it out. Its not at all like jumping off a cliff because God says that children are a reward. I think its a cultural idea that has bled into the church to consider children at the "wrong" time to be a punishment from God.

Praying for you and your wife as you consider these issues!

ETA - Nikki, not knowing everything related to your situation, it sounds like the wise thing would be to make sure the man you're considering marrying is prepared to be a provider for a family. I wouldn't look at your income at all because you have a different calling as a wife than your husband-to-be.

It has shown up in thread after thread: The majority view on the PB is that birth control is a sin. period.

You have so many children that it may be necessary for you to work two jobs until a few of them grow up and leave. Is it possible for you to work 16 hours a day 5 days a week? You could probably double your income.

But that's just it, I don't have to work two jobs (and I don't want to - I want to be there for my children!) We get by just fine, and this is in a country with ruinous taxes. We do get Child Tax Benefits, but so does everyone else (we're not on any special government programs, though we do qulaify for several), and people simply can't understand how we get by. And yet we live well - we are all well-fed and healthy. God provides.