So I've met a young man and we're headed towards courtship but in order for that to happen, my father told me to write down what I want his involvement in this process to be like, otherwise dad won't do it and I'd like suggestions from y'all. It would be appreciated especially as I set criteria for myself - I don't want to miss something vital. (and remember I'm very open to suggestions since I've never done this before.)

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Susan Anita - Clan Scott!
Member of Grace Bible Church - Bakersfield, CA www.gbcob.org

Sounds good so far. Let's hear from the married people.

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The man who is disposed to think of his sin as a great calamity, rather than as a heinous crime, is not likely either to reverence God or to respect His law. - John Kennedy, 1873
Meg
Blog
Member, Intown Presbyterian Church,PCA, Portland, OR

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

While I am not an authority, and have made many mistakes (nothing major) in this area, I do have some thoughts.

My fiancee' and I courted (are courting) for about 2 1/2 years. We are getting married in July. This is I speaking, not the Lord, yet I think I have wisdom on this matter.

1. There is no one "right" way to court. If someone else does it a certain way and it is a success, that doesn't necessarily mean yoy have to do everything they do. It might work for you, it might not.

2. Don't do silly things just to prove to the "worldly world" that you are not "dating."

3. Honor the familial/ecclesial authorities.

4. Regarding chapperoning: use common sense. Don't go to extremes like having a meter stick between yall on the couch and making sure at least 3 adults are in the room with yall. The main rule on chapperoning is do not put yourself in situations where people might even think you are compromising your honor. This isn't as hard as it sounds. Dont' be in a home with the two of yall alone, etc. Common sense stuff.

5. Have clearly defined and agreed upon goals (and those goals might change in a year or two. If they do, can both of you adapt to those changes? That happened to me and things, beside a few rough bumps, worked out well). In my opinion, this is what separates courting from dating. Can you see yourself spending the rest of your life with this person? Well, that is one of the reasons why you are courting; to find that out.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Before you marry anyone, do the following experiment:

(1) get a car with no AC
(2) Arange for an august afternoon date
(3) borrow several babies
(4) get stuck in rush hour traffic
(5) arrange it so a tire goes flat.


Then see how future hubby does.

Anyone can talk a good talk, but the pudding-proof is when you're baking in August heat with a whiny kid and a lane full of cars moving like molasses. Every courting couple should do this.


CONGRATS SUSE!

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

I'd say go camping, not the two of you alone, but perhaps with a married couple. By camping I don't mean a 50 foot Airstream but hiking into the woods for a week, overnights in open shelters. The Adirondaks are ideal. It's the acid test of character.

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Mary Vanderkooi
Kale Heywott Church (KHC)
Soddo, Ethiopia

Righto! I'll have a sniper planted somewhere alongside the road to take out that tire.

And yes, common sense stuff like not being alone in a house. Great. But I'm looking for how my father should be involved in this process - what his role is. It does vary from person to person, so I'd like suggestions.

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Susan Anita - Clan Scott!
Member of Grace Bible Church - Bakersfield, CA www.gbcob.org

A lot of that depends on your logistics (you'll figure it out as you go along). What I did, fwiw, when I wanted to see (and this still applies until a few days before the wedding) my fiance, I called her father and asked permission, told him what I planned to do (I live 90 miles away), who would chaperone us, etc. That's relatively simple and covers 90% of the ground.

The rest is up to how your father wants to handle it. Again, there is no single right way and the books on courtship I have read are relatively silent on the issue.

I will try to think of more.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Well, from a failure, I didn't bring my father into the decision and I ignored her father's ideas, and it came back to haunt me with 23 years of a bad marriage. Put the burden on him, and he'll come through. You shouldn't have to be making decisions. You aren't equipped, and neither is the young man.

Tell you dad that it's his responsibility to guide you through it. If he won't, tell the Elders of your church what the story is and let them do it. The idea of a father's blessing isn't just some OT deal that's not in place because of Christ's death and resurrection.

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Tim Vaughan, 48 years old, member Redeemer OPC, Santa Maria CA.

Well,

I'd say that one of the things your father needs to remember is that he is "screening" a prospective husband for his daughter, and not a golfing/hunting/fishing/drinking(if he partakes) buddy for himself.

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Donald Jacobs
Marysville. WA
Cascade Church (CRCNA)

Cum vero infirmor tunc potens sum.

I think he's doing this so that I know what I want in a man, will strive to be in a God-honoring relationship because we've set down the structure to build off of, and that the idea will be stuck in my head all throughout this process. I know that he will walk me through the list I provide him with, explain things, and more than likely add some things since he knows me best and I'm fairly sure he'll be asking me if I can hold myself to these standards. So once again, a father's involvement and some other things I should add for myself to the list I made in my first post. For you fathers out there, how would you help your daughter and her suitor through courtship? We're defining courtship as getting to know the young man and working out some issues with the goal of marriage in the end.

Now I'm off to worship with the saints - y'all have a great Lord's day!!

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Susan Anita - Clan Scott!
Member of Grace Bible Church - Bakersfield, CA www.gbcob.org

Having been married for quite some time now, and having successfully completed a courtship a long time ago, I second Jacob's excellent counsel.

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DAVIDIVS DOCTVS VTRIVSQVE LINGVAE
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

And it can be hard and frustrating at times. Let's face it. Dating is so easier, I would imagine. No father to get in the way. Don't have to worry about chaperones. But we know better. And courting will be awkward. You really don't know the courtee that well (speaking generally). Neither does your father. It will feel weird at times. But it goes away.

As hard as it gets, it really is simpler. It is liberating also. You are freed from a lot of worldly expectations. After a while a lot of the more complex things are simplified.

But hey, at least you don't have this experience.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

That will definitely be my future son-in-law's experience!

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Patrick
OPC
MDiv, RTS Jackson.

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.

My husband and I have decided that we will have our children court, my oldest is just 14, but we are already talking about it. I have been encouraging her to really think about what her standards are. She really wants to be a stay at home mom, so marrying someone who thinks she should work isn't going to be optional for her. I would say that you really need to think about what you are willing to compromise on, after all, you will be the one called to submit. I would think that being of one mind theologically would be of the utmost importance. You could go to your pastor and ask him for help. He sees the good and bad in marraiges all of the time, he would probably be able to give you some really useful information. Josh Harris has a book called Boy Meets Girl that talks about his personal courting relationship with his wife Shannon. Set your standard high, but be realistic.

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Mindy
Member of Pilgrim Presbyterian Church
Martinsburg, WV
By wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established;by knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches. Proverbs 24:3-4

Yes, thank you folks but I want to know how the fathers out there expect to be involved in the process. What will you do to aid the couple through courtship?

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Susan Anita - Clan Scott!
Member of Grace Bible Church - Bakersfield, CA www.gbcob.org

Being a father of a daughter, I can relate to your question. I would first ask my daughter (Annah) if they relate well together. Do they have similar interests, do they enjoy each other's company, do they really like each other. I never asked my wife to marry me until after we had experienced several arguments together. I wanted to experience myself with her when we were at our low points, instead of making a decision while experiencing the "warm fuzzies" all of the time. I wanted to see if I was still interested in marrying her then. I would advise considering this. But, of significant importance is, do they get along and do they have sincere affection and love for one another. This is the glue that bonds the marriage together. Are they attracted to one another. Is it a mild attraction or a more serious one. Does the man enjoy relating with her for the sake of relating; does he enjoy her company; does he meet her needs of romance to a level at which she desires. On other issues, is he a mature believer; does he acknowledge his proper role as a husband and hers as a wife; is he able to lead a family spiritually; does he honor his parents and hers; is he willing and able to hold a job and spend himself for the benefit of his family.

To aid my daughter, I would try to be the objective analyzer. I would try to help her to distinguish between her emotional exitement and her rational thinking. I would encourage her to figure out what it is about him that makes her happy; what does she like that he does; what does she like that he is; what makes him stand out from all the others. I would also tell her to figure out what it is about him that she does not like, and to realize that she is not to marry him with expectations that he will change. In fact, a good question is, "if he will always be just like he is, and he will never change to be any different, would you still marry him?". Another good question is, "are you able to entrust to this man your own will, to be under his leadership and authority?". Throughout the process, I would remind her that she is marrying a sinner, and that she herself is one as well. So, perfection is not available, and contentment is demanded. She can only be as wise as she is able to be in her selection; God alone is sovereign over the outcome and result of her choice. Many marry with great foundations, only to find that the structure cracks and crumbles along the way, due to unforseen character traits and circumstances. Others marry with little forethought at all, and yet it blossoms into a beautiful garden over time. I would remind her that we can never determine the outcome; that we must leave these things up to God. Yet, we must be wise in our planning to the best of our ability, and not worry about those things that are not meant for our worry.

Blessings!

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Charles Plauger
Member/Grace Reformed Church
Oakland, MD

Thank you, Mr. Plauger! That was exactly what I was looking for and I had totally forgotten about the emotional side of it. We younguns do tend to be twitterpated at times.

Thanks again.

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Susan Anita - Clan Scott!
Member of Grace Bible Church - Bakersfield, CA www.gbcob.org

Fightin's important.

Seriously though, it's inevitable and you have to know how to deal with it. This ain't roses and bunny rabbits, this is fallen humanity.

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Andrew DeShazo, Deacon, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"All of us stumble in many ways, but if anyone is never at fault in what he says, then he is mature, able to control his whole body."(James 3:2)

Susan,

Check out this online book:

CHRISTIAN EDUCATION IN THE HOME: HELP! MY DAUGHTER WANTS TO DATE

http://www.reformedpresbytery.org/bo...p/courtshp.pdf

This book is all about courtship, and may be good for you and your dad to read. In Appendix A, on page 21, there are pages of interview questions in numerous categories that a father could ask the prospective suitor. Of course not all are applicable to all circumstances, but is a good start in helping him, and you, to define his role.

Hope that helps.

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Ginny Dohms
Puritan Reformed Church
RPNA (GM)
Canada

If you cannot get along during a courtship, look for another pick. That's my two cents.


Also, you should ask the hard questions now, before you get twitter-pated and part quickly if the answers are not good. Part before emotional attachments occur.

My friend in high school got attracted to a pretty smile and got emotional and physical involved a little and married a Catholic girl and dropped out of seminary. She is very pretty and very nice, but his spiritual life is basically "Do good and be nice to others" now.


Finally, never try to change a man. Beauty and the Beast is a fairytale. We just get uglier, smellier, hairier and meaner as we age.... and not the other way around...

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

I second Mr. Plauger's recommendations and give it a hearty

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Carlos Eduardo de Oliveira
Member
Presbyterian Church in Aluminio
Mairinque, São Paulo, Brazil