Hey guys,

How does one who holds to Perseverance of the Saints understand passages such as John 15:1-6, Romans 11:17-24 and Hebrews 10:26-31 apart from a covenantal context? If one rejects the notion that New Covenant members can fall away, how do they interpret these verses? Apart from covenant theology, these verses seem to indicate that one could lose their salvation. I have heard some say that these warnings are just the means that God uses to keep His people, but that really seems like a stretch to me. I was wondering if any Reformed Baptists had a different take on it. Thanks in advance.

In Christ,
Brady

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Brady
Grace Presbyterian (PCA)
Shreveport, LA

"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." - John Owen

I think John 15 speaks more to the exclusion of self-righteous Jews and Romans 11 to the inclusion of gentile believers more so than pots.

Hebrews 10:26-31 does not say or even suggest that these people are believers. It must be understood that the writer of Hebrews had three specific groups in mind when writing this epistle.

1) Hebrew Christians suffering persecution, this is the main group focused on (10:32-34; 12:4)

2) Jewish unbelievers who had assented to the intellectual truths of Christ but had not placed their faith in him. (2:1-3; 6:4-6; 10:26-29; 12:15-17)

3) Jewish unbelievers who were unconvinced but had some exposure to the gospel (9:11, 14, 15, 27, 28)

In that light it is understood that the author is referring to the second group of people who had not trusted in Christ but confirmed certain truths regarding him. It is to this group that the writer informs of the wrath to come for seeing the truth, acknowledging it as truth, yet refusing to trust in it for their salvation. It is not referring to losing salvation since they never had it in the first place.

The verse that I would be more concerned about is Heb. 6:4-6.

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Michael Cope
Pastor, BGBC (non-denom)
West Lafayette, IN (Home of the Boilermakers!!!)

"Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me." Col. 1:28,29

Hi Brady,

Resources:

1. Covenant, Justification, and Pastoral Ministry

2. Baptism, Election, and the Covenant of Grace. (this deals most directly with this issue)

3. "Baptism and the Benefits of Christ" (PDF of part of a journal article that deals directly with this issue)

4. Resources on Covenant Theology

5. The God of Promise

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R. Scott Clark, D.Phil
Westminster Seminary California
Associate Pastor, Oceanside URC
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