Nope - falls under the "now, not yet" distinction.

How about this?

Galatians 3:27
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ

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Matthew, Doug - I am not overlooking your posts - will respond when I have more time, thanks for the interaction!

Thinking of a book title: The Psalms Triumphant: the supremacy of the Psalms as ultimate guide to the worship of God in spirit and truth.

So you are saying that the call in the Psalms to clothe oneself with "holy attire" is figurative and not normative?

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Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
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Deo Vindice

Nope - the holy attire is normative, but we have a greater and holier "attire" in Christ.

So what exactly is holy attire?

Well, since you brought it up, I'll give you first shot at defining it.

I am not the one trying to say the Psalms are prescriptive for NT worship (thereby proving somehow that instruments are commanded for NT worship.)

I'd say, based on a search of the scriptures, it is attire which is set apart to God. What that may have meant to the OT worshiper, I am not sure, but I can reasonably discern what it now means to the NT worshiper, since there is scripture to apply to it.

Though going to this discussion is I must say that it seems that "Holy Attire" is nowhere commanded by the NT nor is it even remotely covered under the RPW.

It's commanded through the Psalms and perfectly fulfilled in the NT through Christ.

1. We are commanded to use the Psalms as our guide for worship.
2. The Psalms command X and unless X is abrogated or fulfilled by the NT, it is still valid for the NT believer.

So you don't think Eph. 5:19 establishes the point that the psalms and only the psalms are normative for NT worship?

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I think the word "normative" needs some clarification. Are the Psalms "normative" in the sense that they are the only divinely appointed book of praise and worship songs to be used in the church? Yes. But the word "normative" is usually used in a different sense - namely, that everything mentioned is to be implemented as part of the normal practice of the church. In that sense, the Psalms are not "normative." Many Psalms speak of practices which were part of the OT cultus (i.e., sacrifices) and which are not to be put into practice in the NT church simply because they were mentioned in the Psalms. When we sing them with the greater light that we have in Christ, we understand that the symbols have been fulfilled and we sing them in light of that fulfillment.

I think Backwoods Presbyterian means that the Psalms are not prescriptive and normative in this latter sense. We can't say that everything mentioned in the Psalms was intended to be practised and implemented in NT worship.

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But we can say that everything concerning worship in the Psalms not abrogated or fulfilled in the NT is prescriptive and normative.

Not EP or IP, but PP - Prescriptive Psalmody - certainly fits the command of the apostle

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

From where I stand, there is no difference between EP and PP. The Psalms themselves instruct us to sing the psalms, as do other parts of Scripture. Since the singing of Psalms was not abrogated or fulfilled in the NT, the command of the Psalter to sing the Psalms is normative and prescriptive.

But the use of musical instruments is abrogated and fulfilled. Thus the references to using instruments in the corporate worship of the people of God found in the Psalms are not normative and prescriptive, any more than the references to the sacrifice.

There are references to the use of musical instruments in the Psalms that refer to their use in other settings besides the corporate public worship of the church, and these I would agree are normative and prescriptive, since they simply charge us to demonstrate our joy and thanksgiving to God with appropriate musical expression.

No one has yet responded to the references I posted from 1 and 2 Chronicles which demonstrate that the liturgical use of musical instruments in the OT was a particular function of the priests and Levites - connected with the sacrifice and the ark of the covenant - and therefore part of the ceremonial order that has been fulfilled by the Priestly work of Christ.

RE-POSTED FOR EMPHASIS...

Submitted for your consideration...

Here is a survey of the references to musical instruments in worship throughout 1 and 2 Chronicles...

1. The use of musical instruments in the OT worship was a function of the Levites, who presided over the sacrificial system.

2. The specifically appointed function of these Levites was to minister before the ark of the LORD.

3. Those appointed to play musical instruments were specifically-named members of the priestly family, who were charged to employ the "instruments of God" in connection with the burnt offerings "according to all that is written in the law of the LORD."

4. Within the order of the priests and Levites there were 4,000 appointed to play musical instruments made by David himself for the purpose of praising God.

5. In addition to ministering before the ark of the LORD and praising in connection with the burnt offering, some of the priests and Levites were set apart to prophesy with musical instruments.

6. The employment of the instruments was a function of the priests, arrayed in white linen.

7. The use of the musical instruments by the Levites was carefully done according to the prescription of God through His prophets - only Levites, and only the specific instruments appointed by God.

8. The Levitical function of employing the musical instruments commenced with the offering of the burnt offering.

9. The Levitical funtion of employing the musical instruments stopped at the completion of the burnt offering.

10. When the burnt offering was finished, the instruments were put away, but the singing of praises continued in reverent worship to God.

If I'm not mistaken, this is the exact argument used with regard to the abrogation of instruments.

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I am certain it is, if you buy the non-instruments reasoning and the key text of the rationale utilized, that is Hebrews. But the rationale of Hebrews is focused on the Law of Moses and all its sacrificial, dietary and cleanliness accoutrement, not the rejoicing and singing with instrumental accompaniment of the order of David (that Doug has so helpfully pointed out). That is never abrogated.

Yes exactly. Thanks!!!

The phrase, "according to the order of David" in this verse simply refers to the command of David to implement the priestly function of the Levitical musicians who employed their instruments in connection with the burnt offering according to the commandment of God. The "order of David" does not refer to an institution separate and distinct from the "Law of Moses."

The rationale of the author of Hebrews is that Christ, as the High Priest of the good things to come, fulfilled and put an end to the types and shadows of the OT priestly office. The passages I've cited from 1 and 2 Chronicles demonstrate plainly that the use of musical instruments in connection with the sacrifice was an integral part of that OT priestly and Levitical office and function. Thus they are now put away, having been fulfilled by Him.

Please demonstrate where in the sacrificial system prior to David that the Levitical priesthood was ordained to rejoice with singing accompanied by instruments. There is a distinction.

The scripture I quoted clearly associates what types and shadows were abrogated. The Davidic custom of rejoicing and singing accompanied by music has not been abrogated; it has been expanded into the priesthood of believers. Thus the aposlte's mandate that we utilize David's Psalms as our guide for NT worship.

I don't need to demonstrate any such thing. God ordained the Levitical priesthood through Moses. God augmented the function of the Levitical priesthood vis-a-vis the use of musical instruments in connection with the animal sacrifice through David. Christ fulfilled all of the types and shadows of the Levitical priesthood through His once-for-all sacrifice, whether instituted under Moses or David.

What has been committed to us as the priesthood of believers is what is stated in Hebrews 13:14-15 - "For here we have no continuing city, but we seek the one to come (i.e., no more central Temple with all of its appointed ceremonial rites). Therefore (since these things have passed away) by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice (our priestly work) of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips (not musical instruments), giving thanks to His name."

In post #30, Ben has a quote from John Calvin, in which Calvin says that 1 Corinthians 14:13 bans the use of musical instruments in worship. Unfortunately for Calvin, neither the verse nor its context say any such thing.

"Therefore, let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret." (1 Corinthians 14:13, NASB)

In its context (1 Corinthians 14:13-19), Paul is speaking of intelligent worship, where the mind and the heart must be connected - something that was threatened by speaking in tongues.

It is perfectly possible to praise God in song and worship while speaking in a known tongue AND using musical instruments. It's done every Lord's Day in thousands of churches.

It is simply not possible to prove from Scripture that musical instruments are banned in public worship.

John Calvin, eisegete...

See Matthew Henry's commentary for an excellent interpretation of this whole passage. Not once does he mention musical instruments.

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Well Calvin would disagree. Can you understand what an instrument says? Does not an instrument speak in a foreign tongue?

Just because you say it is so does not make it so. DComin has provided ample Biblical evidence as to why instruments have been abrogated by the end of Temple worship. It cannot be stated and restated enough that the usage of instruments in worship is a complete novelty in the Christian tradition, including Jesus and the Apostles themselves who did not use instruments in worship.

With all due respect, I have sought to carefully ground my position in the Scriptures and have cited many passages in support of my view on musical instruments. It would be great if an argument could be won by simply declaring by fiat that the opposite position is not possible to prove. I, for one, however, would prefer that those who wish to refute would deal with the multitude of texts that I have cited.

Acts 16:25, "And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God."

Major: they sang praises to God without mechanical instruments.
Minor: they did not breach prescribed worship.
Ergo: Psalmic prescription of mechanical instruments is null and void.

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"Illum oportet crescere me autem minui."

No, the Temple worship has ceased because the soteriological reason for it has disappeared - the sacrificial system has been fulfilled in the one true sacrifice of the Lamb of God, the Lord Jesus Christ. This is the important point. Because the theological reason for Temple worship has been abrogated, it does not follow that the use of musical instruments in worship has also been abrogated.

Matthew, your major premise is an assumption on your part. It could be true (especially as they were in a prison at the time) but it doesn't have to be true. Also, if Paul and Silas were singing without instruments, that doesn't automatically mean that they disapproved of them or never used them themselves in any worship context.

Richard, They are commanded. So either the command has been abrogated and therefore provides no warrant for the use of mechanical instruments in NT worship, or the command is still in force and we are bound to observe their full use. I don't know anyone who would suggest Paul and Silas had access to musical instrumentation.

Doug, regarding your 10 points: all you've proven is that the use of musical instruments was incorporated, in great detail, with the Old Testament Temple worship. But that doesn't mean that instruments are banned for us just because the Levitical system is no more.

As I posted before, the Levitical system ended because its theological and soteriological purpose ended. It does not follow that the use of instruments also ended.

If it were true that the use of instruments is forbidden, then why didn't Paul, in the various places where he speaks of worship, take the opportunity to tell his readers, or remind his readers, that instruments may not be used. It is significant that he never does so. You'll say that they didn't need reminding; I say that he didn't mention them because, with the passing away of the Levitical system, musical instruments became categorized as part of the "matters indifferent."

Well, then, since there is no passage in the NT that abrogates the command, then musical instruments are still to be used in worship.

Have you purchased a harp for next Lord's day service?

Yes; exactly. Folks need to decide if they are arguing for musical instruments in worship as a circumstance or as a command that has not been lifted in the NT; if the latter, we all must use them in worship. It is not optional.

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That is of course Chris if one actually follows the RPW.

Not optional in the sense that they are not banned. The frequency of use, since we have examples of unaccompanied singing, is a matter of liberty.

What other parts of the Levitical system remain in the NT era?

What about incense? Did the theological and soteriological purpose of incense end?

You mean like here...

Gal. 4:9 - "But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?"

I already have a stringed instrument

But the Psalms nowhere command a guitar.

from here

fyi

I am certain you don't read from a scroll...