Covenant and Marriage

Romans922 · #1 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 10:34 AM

My wife asked me last night about covenant (in the Bible) having curses of death (typically, or always taken by JC). She particular asked me how covenant in Bible relates to our Marriage Covenant that we make. Can a marriage covenant really be compared to a covenant from the Bible?

What are the curses of the typical marriage covenant (typical vows)? Death?

larryjf · #2 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans922

My wife asked me last night about covenant (in the Bible) having curses of death (typically, or always taken by JC). She particular asked me how covenant in Bible relates to our Marriage Covenant that we make. Can a marriage covenant really be compared to a covenant from the Bible?

What are the curses of the typical marriage covenant (typical vows)? Death?

Can it be thought of as divorce being the curse? In other words, if you do not keep your marriage vow to be faithful to your spouse divorce is the curse that you bring upon yourself?

toddpedlar · #3 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryjf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans922

My wife asked me last night about covenant (in the Bible) having curses of death (typically, or always taken by JC). She particular asked me how covenant in Bible relates to our Marriage Covenant that we make. Can a marriage covenant really be compared to a covenant from the Bible?

What are the curses of the typical marriage covenant (typical vows)? Death?

Can it be thought of as divorce being the curse? In other words, if you do not keep your marriage vow to be faithful to your spouse divorce is the curse that you bring upon yourself?

Is death not the actual curse for breaking the covenant? How does one break the covenant of marriage? I'm not going to get into the vagaries of desertion, abuse, etc., but porneia is the main thing in mind.. what is the penalty for porneia? Death.

Now we don't do this today, but the death penalty was stated as the penalty for adultery. Today, if one is biblically unfaithful to one's wife, should he not be excommunicated (barring repentance of course)? Again, practice is not what I'm talking about ... but in theory, is this not an equally death-some curse?

BJClark · #4 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 02:38 PM

toddpedlar;

One that really stands out to me is that it kills trust in the relationship...

When trust has been broken, there is no real intimacy any longer, and it brings with it a distrust to every aspect of the marriage...they begin to question everything, ever said or done.

Blueridge Baptist · #5 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJClark

toddpedlar;

One that really stands out to me is that it kills trust in the relationship...

When trust has been broken, there is no real intimacy any longer, and it brings with it a distrust to every aspect of the marriage...they begin to question everything, ever said or done.

That would really put a test on your faith. Could you (or I) forgive an unfaithful spouse who came confessing thier sin and was truly repentant? What was that thing we said....for better or for worse?

BJClark · #6 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 02:58 PM

Blueridge Baptist;

Quote:

That would really put a test on your faith. Could you (or I) forgive an unfaithful spouse who came confessing thier sin and was truly repentant? What was that thing we said....for better or for worse?

I know many who can't...but I also know many who have, but even in the context of being able to forgive, they still don't 'trust' the other spouse right away, it takes a lot of work to rebuild the trust that was lost.

wsw201 · #7 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans922

My wife asked me last night about covenant (in the Bible) having curses of death (typically, or always taken by JC). She particular asked me how covenant in Bible relates to our Marriage Covenant that we make. Can a marriage covenant really be compared to a covenant from the Bible?

What are the curses of the typical marriage covenant (typical vows)? Death?

You have to be very careful in comparing the Covenants God has made with man versus covenants between two people, whether its marriage or any other type of agreement.

I know you are not trying to make this correlation but many FV'ers use the marriage covenant as an example for the Covenants God in the garden, with Noah, Moses, etc. Their emphasis is that a covenant is defined as a relationship versus an agreement. I don't know about you but I don't define my marriage as an agreement (at least not in front of my wife!

).

Romans922 · #8 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsw201

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans922

My wife asked me last night about covenant (in the Bible) having curses of death (typically, or always taken by JC). She particular asked me how covenant in Bible relates to our Marriage Covenant that we make. Can a marriage covenant really be compared to a covenant from the Bible?

What are the curses of the typical marriage covenant (typical vows)? Death?

You have to be very careful in comparing the Covenants God has made with man versus covenants between two people, whether its marriage or any other type of agreement.

I know you are not trying to make this correlation but many FV'ers use the marriage covenant as an example for the Covenants God in the garden, with Noah, Moses, etc. Their emphasis is that a covenant is defined as a relationship versus an agreement. I don't know about you but I don't define my marriage as an agreement (at least not in front of my wife!

).

I would agree with you for the most part. A FV illustration is to say that the Marriage covenant is just like the covenant between God (Trinity). They will say that a covenant is a relationship. I disagree and maybe with you on some parts also. A covenant is a vow (in the marriage covenant) to your spouse and that vow CREATES/ESTABLISHES a relationship. The same as a Covenant between God and man - a covenant there establishes a relationship...not is a relationship. For marriage, my wife and I continually look back to our vows to remind us of what we vowed to do before God.

Please show me if I am wrong here; my wife would agree with me that our covenant we made with each other is not a relationship it is a vow/promise, but establishes a relationship between us.

A5pointer · #9 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsw201

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans922

My wife asked me last night about covenant (in the Bible) having curses of death (typically, or always taken by JC). She particular asked me how covenant in Bible relates to our Marriage Covenant that we make. Can a marriage covenant really be compared to a covenant from the Bible?

What are the curses of the typical marriage covenant (typical vows)? Death?

You have to be very careful in comparing the Covenants God has made with man versus covenants between two people, whether its marriage or any other type of agreement.

I know you are not trying to make this correlation but many FV'ers use the marriage covenant as an example for the Covenants God in the garden, with Noah, Moses, etc. Their emphasis is that a covenant is defined as a relationship versus an agreement. I don't know about you but I don't define my marriage as an agreement (at least not in front of my wife!

).

How about an agreement that defines a relationship?

wsw201 · #10 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A5pointer

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsw201

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans922

My wife asked me last night about covenant (in the Bible) having curses of death (typically, or always taken by JC). She particular asked me how covenant in Bible relates to our Marriage Covenant that we make. Can a marriage covenant really be compared to a covenant from the Bible?

What are the curses of the typical marriage covenant (typical vows)? Death?

You have to be very careful in comparing the Covenants God has made with man versus covenants between two people, whether its marriage or any other type of agreement.

I know you are not trying to make this correlation but many FV'ers use the marriage covenant as an example for the Covenants God in the garden, with Noah, Moses, etc. Their emphasis is that a covenant is defined as a relationship versus an agreement. I don't know about you but I don't define my marriage as an agreement (at least not in front of my wife!

).

How about an agreement that defines a relationship?

PuritanCovenanter · #11 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsw201

I don't know about you but I don't define my marriage as an agreement (at least not in front of my wife!

).

You are a wise man.

PuritanCovenanter · #12 (**permalink**) 09-17-2007, 03:58 PM

There is always some kind of death when a covenant is broken. We are all living under the Curse of the Covenant broken in the Garden. We are groaning for a release from this death and curse. Of Course we who are in Christ are only enduring it for a short time. But pity on those who do not have Christ as their Saviour. There is a second death.

Here is an applicable passage....

NKJV

Quote:

(Mal 2:13) And this is the second thing you do:
You cover the altar of the LORD with tears,
With weeping and crying;
So He does not regard the offering anymore,
Nor receive it with goodwill from your hands.

(Mal 2:14) Yet you say, “For what reason?”
Because the LORD has been witness
Between you and the wife of your youth,
With whom you have dealt treacherously;
Yet she is your companion
And your wife by covenant.

(Mal 2:15) But did He not make them one,
Having a remnant of the Spirit?
And why one?
He seeks godly offspring.
Therefore take heed to your spirit,
And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth.

(Mal 2:16) “ For the LORD God of Israel says
That He hates divorce,
For it covers one’s garment with violence,”
Says the LORD of hosts.

“ Therefore take heed to your spirit,
That you do not deal treacherously.”

KJV

Quote:

(Mal 2:13) And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.

(Mal 2:14) Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

(Mal 2:15) And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

(Mal 2:16) For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.