My daughter is homeschooled, and as such she is on a bevy of Christian mailing lists. We have receive a publication titled, "PCC Update" from Pensacola Christian College. I know PCC is a good fundamentalist, Arminian school, and I shouldn't be shocked at how they celebrate free will (after all, they are famous for the "Free Will song"), but after reading the following article by the late Pastor Mark G. Cambron, founder of Seaside Mission, I was left with my mouth wide open and my jaw on the floor. If this is a taste of what the students at PCC are exposed to I pity them.
Quote:
There are many theories today concerning foreknowledge, predestination and election, until the mind of the average Christian is so mixed up he doesn't know what to believe. If we do not get these three doctrines straight, our whole Christian life will be warped, and witnessing to the unsaved will be a lost grace. Let's look at the foreknowledge of God.
FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" Rom. 8:29. Foreknowledge means to have knowledge of things to be. Foreknowledge is an attribute of God, while predestination and election are acts of God. Only God knows the future. And He does know the future. He wouldn't be God if He didn't, but the fact that he knows who is going to be saved, and who isn't going to be saved, does NOT determine who is going to be saved and who is going to be lost. Someone may ask, "If God does know who is and who isn't going to be saved, how, then, an the sinner get out of it?" Foreknowledge, in Scripture, never determines what is to be - foreknowledge is only the knowledge of things beforehand. It is the same with scientists, they can tell when there is to be an eclipse of the sun or moon; on a certain day, at a certain hour, minute and second; but scientists do not being about the eclipse. God has foreknowledge, and by foreknowledge, he knows the future, but it ends there.
Of course, God knows everything! He knows the number of the hairs on our heads. He knows the number of stars and calls them by name. And God knows the future. Not only that, but God knows what would have happened if things had happened that didn't happen. He knows the results of all possibilities. This is illustrated when David inquired of the Lord concerning his enemy. If he should go to one place, would the enemy be there? God said they would. So David went in another direction. Foreknowledge simply means to possess knowledge of things to be.
PREDESTINATION OF GOD
Here is where many saints falter in their Christian witnessing. They read something in the Word about predestination and then reason that God predestines some people to be saved and some to be lost. That is not the case; predestination is never about the lost man being saved of lost; rather, predestination is about the saved man. We need to read the context where it speak of predestination, to clearly understand that salvation is a personal matter based upon the "whosoever wills."
Predestination is for the saved man. God knows who is going to be saved, and He has predestined certain blessings to those who will be saved by faith. In other words, God draws a circle, figuratively speaking, and says that whosoever believes in the Lord Jesus will get in that circle. So the believer, upon his faith in Christ, steps into the circle. The God says, figuratively speaking, "Whosoever is in that circle by faith, I have predestined them to receive these blessings." These blessing are:
"Conformed to the Image of His Son"
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" Rom. 8:29. One blessing that God has predestinated for the believer is to be fashioned, made, transformed, transfigured into the likeness of the image of Jesus Christ. The things you may be suffering this moment will (Rom. 8:28) make you more like Jesus. At death or the rapture, we are all going to be changed and be wholly like Christ.
"Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ"
"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" Eph. 1:5. The Christian is predestinated unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ. Again we state - predestination is the predetermined blessings for the saved man and has nothing to do with salvation.
To grasp this great truth, let's explain the meaning of adoption. In America and England, when we adopt a child, we legally take a child of another family and the court makes it our own. But not so with a Jewish family, or with the ancient Roman and Greek family. These simply adopted their own children. Adoption simply means "to declare as a so," or "son placed." Galatians chapter 4 defines the meaning of adoption. It is the time appointed by the father when his boy ceases to be considered a child and becomes a recognized son. According to Jewish custom it is called a BAR MITZVAH - declared to be a Son of the Law, Son of Blessing. The boy becomes of age after his thirteenth birthday, on the day selected by the father. So it is with us: we are children of God, but we are waiting our BAR MITZVAH, our adoption, the time when our Heavenly Father will declare us of age and place us as Sons before the whole universe: "even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION, TO WIT, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY" Rom. 8:23. This is one blessing that God has predestined for the saved man, for all who trust Jesus Christ - that we all shall be declared of age and His SONS - at the resurrection!
"Predestined According to the Purpose of Him"
The third blessing for the child of God is that which God has predestinated for those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ by faith: "Being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ" Eph. 1:11, 12. It is not salvation the Holy Spirit is speaking about, but is for those who are saved. And God had predestinated - that we should be to the praise of His glory.
ELECTION
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" Eph. 1:4.
The New Testament words, "chosen, choose, and election" are the same. The Old Testament word is simply "chosen." From the above Scripture many think God chooses some to be saved and some to be lost. Again, as I pointed out - predestination and election (choosing) have nothing to do with the lost, but are for the saved.
The following Scriptures tell us what the choosing, or election, of God is about: "For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works, but of him that calleth); It was said unto her, THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Rom, 9:9-13. At once, we see that election or choosing has to do with service - THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER. It does not say, "The younger shall be saved, and the elder shall be lost." No, but, "the elders shall SERVE the younger." Thus election has to do with service. "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" wasn't said of these two men before they were born, but hundreds of years after they died. God hated the descendants of Esau because of their unbelief, and loved the descendants of Jacob because of their faith.
In John 15, the Lord Jesus said - He had chosen (elected) them disciples. For salvation? No, for service. Even Judas was chosen! For damnation? No, but like Pharoah, who was a fit vessel unto wrath - after being given many chances to believe, he refused, and thus was used for God's purpose.
The prophet Isaiah says that Israel is God's chosen people (Isaiah 41:8). Does this mean that all Jews are saved? No. It simply means that God has chosen Israel for a service. And we know what that service was: to give us the Word of God and to give us the Lord Jesus Christ! Isaiah says that Jesus Christ is the Chosen Servant of God (Isaiah 42:1). Does this mean that God chose the Lord Jesus to be saved? Of course not! For He is the SAVIOUR! But God did choose His Son for service - and that service was to be the Lamb of God who would die for the sins of the world. And He was the obedient Servant, being obedient unto death, even the death of the Cross.
Back to Ephesians 1:4 - what has God elected or chosen for us, or what has He elected, or chosen us for? Not salvation, but He has chosen us before the foundation of the world (He knew we would believe on His Son) for service - "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."
In conclusion - God does not predestinate or elect men to be saved or lost, but salvation is on the basis of "WHOSOEVER WILL"! - "And the Spirt and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth, say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And WHOSOEVER WILL, let him take the water of life freely" Rev. 22:17.
__________________
Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland
__________________ ~James Helbert~, Wytheville, VA
Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCUS TheBibleAlone.com / The Edinburgh Inn "Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” - Zechariah 3:2
Huh? You mean that there was like something wrong with it? I thought that you said it was like written by a Pastor??? I feel that if we would just focus on Jesus and like the red-letter verses about justice, we wouldn't get like into these nasty fights over words. After all, like how can we really know that the free will position is not right? Maybe heaven is just like how we walk into a room marked "whosoever will." Inside we like see a lavish table with name plates at each seat like. And, when we like get ready to sit down we find our name and a line that like says "predestined from the foundation of the world." Can't both views be right? My pastor says that he is a Calminian. And with such smark people on both sides like, I don't feel it is worth like making a stink in the body of Christ. After all, it doesn't feel very loving.
[where is the emoticon for "tongue in cheek"???]
__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)
This song that has floated around the PB from time to time was sung at PCC.
__________________
Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls "But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10
"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton
Again we state - predestination is the predetermined blessings for the saved man and has nothing to do with salvation.
Can anyone say: "NOT the Gospel."
This leaves the very ground of our salvation that begins in God.
__________________
Rich
Northern VA
OPC
WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site. SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion
OK. So the man has read Dave Hunt. Everything he said is a simple regurgitation. Nothing new; been refuted over and over and over...
thus all the going on around here. I wondered where all the ruckus was coming from.
What do you suppose they do with John 10:
25-6 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep..."
I've read Arminians tie themselves up like pretzels trying to make that mean precisely the opposite of what it does. It'd be amusing were it not so disrespectful of the Savior and His words.
__________________ Anne Ivy
Christ Chapel Bible Church
Fort Worth, Texas
Married to Don, mother of six, grandmother to an ever-increasing brood.
Again we state - predestination is the predetermined blessings for the saved man and has nothing to do with salvation.
Can anyone say: "NOT the Gospel."
This leaves the very ground of our salvation that begins in God.
That is my primary concern. What does teaching like this do to the very fabric of the gospel? How far can you deviate from the gospel before it becomes a false gospel, or worse yet, emblematic of Galatians 1:8? Our God is sovereign and can rescue his elect from such falsehood. I am living proof of that fact. May God grant his church true revival through the faithful teaching of his word and the work of the Spirit.
__________________
Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Such confusion going on! Our daughter is 8 and she already understands that she may be destined for fire if she has not been so elected. She will grow up knowing to test herself against Scripture to see if she is of the faith and of the One Spirit. It is no use telling her that Jesus died for her and that all she has to do is "accept it". It's hogwash and free-willism. Jesus may not have, and what reason would I have to fill her head with a hope that she may not have? Children are not fools or weak. They will understand these concepts if you do not candy-coat the truth.
Such confusion going on! Our daughter is 8 and she already understands that she may be destined for fire if she has not been so elected. She will grow up knowing to test herself against Scripture to see if she is of the faith and of the One Spirit. It is no use telling her that Jesus died for her and that all she has to do is "accept it". It's hogwash and free-willism. Jesus may not have, and what reason would I have to fill her head with a hope that she may not have? Children are not fools or weak. They will understand these concepts if you do not candy-coat the truth.
Spurgeon used to preach that it was dangerous for a lost individual to "worry" about whether they were elect or not. The fact of the matter is that the Gospel says Jesus died to reconcile us to God. Did He die to reconcile all to God? Certainly not all individuals that have ever lived, but ALL his elect. How do you know if you are elect of God? My sheep hear my voice and they follow me. The command is, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." It is not "Figure out if you are of the elect and thou shalt be saved."
__________________
Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls "But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10
"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton
Last edited by Barnpreacher; 02-12-2008 at 11:54 PM.
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Spurgeon used to preach that it was dangerous for a lost individual to "worry" about whether they were elect or not. The fact of the matter is that the Gospel says Jesus died to reconcile us to God. Did He die to reconcile all to God? Certainly not all individuals that have ever lived, but ALL his elect. How do you know if you are elect of God? My sheep hear my voice and they follow me. The command is, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." It is NOT "Figure out if you are of the elect and thou shalt be saved."
It also says "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Php 2:12). I think there is some justification for self examination.
Does the unregenerate or reprobate worry about his salvation? Doesn't he deny he is a sinner. He thinks he will be saved because he "basically a good person".
__________________
R. Anthony Coletti
Midway Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Jonesborough, TN
[i]et venite et arguite me dicit Dominus[/i]
Spurgeon used to preach that it was dangerous for a lost individual to "worry" about whether they were elect or not. The fact of the matter is that the Gospel says Jesus died to reconcile us to God. Did He die to reconcile all to God? Certainly not all individuals that have ever lived, but ALL his elect. How do you know if you are elect of God? My sheep hear my voice and they follow me. The command is, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." It is NOT "Figure out if you are of the elect and thou shalt be saved."
It also says "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Php 2:12). I think there is some justification for self examination.
Agree completely. However, you're dealing with those that understand the issues of justification, sanctification etc. when you're talking about self-examination. You're dealing with those that are a part of the visible church. That doesn't make them a part of the invisible church, but I don't believe that you teach the heathen to figure out if they are elect or not. You preach to them the Gospel and tell them they are compelled to repent and believe it, or they will die in their sins.
__________________
Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls "But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10
"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton
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Spurgeon used to preach that it was dangerous for a lost individual to "worry" about whether they were elect or not. The fact of the matter is that the Gospel says Jesus died to reconcile us to God. Did He die to reconcile all to God? Certainly not all individuals that have ever lived, but ALL his elect. How do you know if you are elect of God? My sheep hear my voice and they follow me. The command is, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." It is NOT "Figure out if you are of the elect and thou shalt be saved."
It also says "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Php 2:12). I think there is some justification for self examination.
Agree completely. However, you're dealing with those that understand the issues of justification, sanctification etc. when you're talking about self-examination. You're dealing with those that are a part of the visible church. That doesn't make them a part of the invisible church, but I don't believe that you teach the heathen to figure out if they are elect or not. You preach to them the Gospel and tell them they are compelled to repent and believe it, or they will die in their sins.
OK. I missed the "for a lost individual". I see what you are saying.
__________________
R. Anthony Coletti
Midway Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Jonesborough, TN
[i]et venite et arguite me dicit Dominus[/i]
... no, don't get me started!
--"They do err not knowing the scriptures..." nor the Institutes!
Martin Luther, Table Talk 
Abysmal is just the word for it. This sludge is straight from the Abyss.
