The PuritanBoard  

Go Back   The PuritanBoard > Theology > The Confession of Faith

The Confession of Faith Discuss Westminster Standards, 1689 Confession and 3 Forms of Unity
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful (Heb. 10:23)

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 02:48 PM
Romans922's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tchula, MS
Posts: 2,571
Thanks: 136
Thanked 560 Times in 259 Posts
Westminster Directory of Worship: Baptism Question

In the Directory it says this (SEE BOLDED) (What does this mean?):

Before baptism, the minister is to use some words of instruction, touching the institution, nature, use, and ends of this sacrament, shewing,
"That it is instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ: That it is a seal of the covenant of grace, of our ingrafting into Christ, and of our union with him, of remission of sins, regeneration, adoption, and life eternal: That the water, in baptism, representeth and signifieth both the blood of Christ, which taketh away all guilt of sin, original and actual; and the sanctifying virtue of the Spirit of Christ against the dominion of sin, and the corruption of our sinful nature: That baptizing, or sprinkling and washing with water, signifieth the cleansing from sin by the blood and for the merit of Christ, together with the mortification of sin, and rising from sin to newness of life, by virtue of the death and resurrection of Christ: That the promise is made to believers and their seed; and that the seed and posterity of the faithful, born within the church,
have, by their birth, interest in the covenant, and right to the seal of it, and to the outward privileges of the church, under the gospel, no less than the children of Abraham in the time of the Old Testament; the covenant of grace, for substance, being the same; and the grace of God, and the consolation of believers, more plentiful than before: That the Son of God admitted little children into his presence, embracing and blessing them, saying, For of such is the kingdom of God: That children, by baptism, are solemnly received into the bosom of the visible church, distinguished from the world, and them that are without, and united with believers; and that all who are baptized in the name of Christ, do renounce, and by their baptism are bound to fight against the devil, the world, and the flesh: That they are Christians, and federally holy before baptism, and therefore are they baptized: That the inward grace and virtue of baptism is not tied to that very moment of time wherein it is administered; and that the fruit and power thereof reacheth to the whole course of our life; and that outward baptism is not so necessary, that, through the want thereof, the infant is in danger of damnation, or the parents guilty, if they do not contemn or neglect the ordinance of Christ, when and where it may be had."
__________________
Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Father of Oliver
Master of Bruce
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

What can I say, I like blogs!



Last edited by NaphtaliPress; 05-21-2009 at 03:40 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 02:58 PM
Chippy's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 354
Thanks: 120
Thanked 152 Times in 71 Posts
it's difficult to read because of the color of the text. Is it ok if I ask you to change the color?

EDIT: Thanks for changing the color to a darker one.
__________________
Joel de Leon
Member (man under care)
Christ Presbyterian Church, OPC
Salt Lake City, UT

The Cleansed Leper

Last edited by Chippy; 05-21-2009 at 07:00 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 03:20 PM
Puritan Sailor's Avatar
Puritanboard Professor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lisbon, NY
Posts: 5,888
Thanks: 421
Thanked 635 Times in 294 Posts
It's clarified in the passage before, "That children, by baptism, are solemnly received into the bosom of the visible church, distinguished from the world,"

They are "Christians" not by regeneration but by profession. They are to be raised in the religion of their parents, as disciples in the ways of the Lord, and not raised in the ways of the world. And we raise them in the hope and expectation that they will grow up and embrace Christ themselves and the promise of their baptism as they grow in maturity and understanding.

__________________
Patrick
MDiv, RTS Jackson
Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
"Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Puritan Sailor For This Useful Post:
Scott1 (05-21-2009)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 06:46 PM
Gesetveemet's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UPSTATE, NY
Posts: 328
Thanks: 137
Thanked 109 Times in 63 Posts
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans922 View Post
In the Directory it says this (SEE BOLDED) (What does this mean?):

Before baptism, the minister is to use some words of instruction, touching the institution, nature, use, and ends of this sacrament, shewing,
"That it is instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ: That it is a seal of the covenant of grace, of our ingrafting into Christ, and of our union with him, of remission of sins, regeneration, adoption, and life eternal: That the water, in baptism, representeth and signifieth both the blood of Christ, which taketh away all guilt of sin, original and actual; and the sanctifying virtue of the Spirit of Christ against the dominion of sin, and the corruption of our sinful nature: That baptizing, or sprinkling and washing with water, signifieth the cleansing from sin by the blood and for the merit of Christ, together with the mortification of sin, and rising from sin to newness of life, by virtue of the death and resurrection of Christ: That the promise is made to believers and their seed; and that the seed and posterity of the faithful, born within the church,
have, by their birth, interest in the covenant, and right to the seal of it, and to the outward privileges of the church, under the gospel, no less than the children of Abraham in the time of the Old Testament; the covenant of grace, for substance, being the same; and the grace of God, and the consolation of believers, more plentiful than before: That the Son of God admitted little children into his presence, embracing and blessing them, saying, For of such is the kingdom of God: That children, by baptism, are solemnly received into the bosom of the visible church, distinguished from the world, and them that are without, and united with believers; and that all who are baptized in the name of Christ, do renounce, and by their baptism are bound to fight against the devil, the world, and the flesh: That they are Christians, and federally holy before baptism, and therefore are they baptized: That the inward grace and virtue of baptism is not tied to that very moment of time wherein it is administered; and that the fruit and power thereof reacheth to the whole course of our life; and that outward baptism is not so necessary, that, through the want thereof, the infant is in danger of damnation, or the parents guilty, if they do not contemn or neglect the ordinance of Christ, when and where it may be had."
Is not Westminster Directory of Worship holding to what the WCF teaches. The PROMISE, and not the PRESUMPTION, of the covenant of grace towards the children of believers? Or is this a sticky topic? No hornets please I'm only a plebeian.



V. Although it be a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance,[13]
yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that
no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it;[14] or, that all that
are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated
.[15]

13. Gen. 17:14; Matt. 28:19; Acts 2:38; see Luke 7:30
14. Rom. 4:11; Acts 10:2, 4, 22, 31, 45, 47
15. Acts 8:13, 23


.
__________________

______________________________

William, N.R.C., New York
______________________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 07:03 PM
Scott1's Avatar
Puritanboard Postgraduate
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 4,878
Thanks: 1,909
Thanked 1,851 Times in 1,097 Posts
In context of the whole of this passage, and in relation to other parts of the Westminster Standards, this is reflecting the notion that the visible church is composed of believers and their children. It is not presuming belief only baptism, nor that infant children are automatically saved only reflecting what the covenant community confesses/professes.
__________________
Scott
PCA
North Carolina



"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)"
Hebrews 10:23
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 07:21 PM
armourbearer's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 7,353
Thanks: 916
Thanked 5,342 Times in 1,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gesetveemet View Post
The PROMISE, and not the PRESUMPTION, of the covenant of grace towards the children of believers?
Precisely; and like all God's PROMISES, believers hope in the mercy of God for their FULFILMENT. It is a matter of leaving the secret things to the Lord and the church being governed by the things which are revealed.
__________________
Yours sincerely,


"Illum oportet crescere me autem minui."
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 09:58 PM
Michael Butterfield's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pickens, MS
Posts: 322
Thanks: 19
Thanked 27 Times in 14 Posts
That the inward grace and virtue of baptism is not tied to that very moment of time wherein it is administered
__________________
Michael J. Butterfield, M.Div. RTS Jackson, MS
Presently living in Pickens, MS
Attend Pickens and Tchula, MS PCA Churches

No man can know sin without knowing the law: and herein appears to me one of the prevailing defects of modern preaching: I mean the neglect of holding up this perfect mirror, in which the sinner shall see reflected his own moral image. (John Angell James)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.0

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2002-2008 PuritanBoard.com
Hosted by WebsiteMaven - helping ministries with web hosting advice, reviews, and design.
67 Westminster Abbey © Confessional Presbyterian Presses - used with permission.
Add Our Custom Button to your Google Toolbar

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69