1689 LBC and God's decree

North Jersey Baptist · #1 (**permalink**) 07-15-2007, 10:57 PM

I quote from chapter three sections 3 & 4 of the 1689 LBC:

Quote:

3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
(1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4)

4. These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
(2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )

Angels are predestined to eternal life through Jesus Christ?

Quote:

1 Peter 1:12 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven-- things into which angels long to look.

Thoughts?

armourbearer · #2 (**permalink**) 07-15-2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaptistInCrisis

Thoughts?

I'm glad I hold to the original. The revision is indefensible. Blessings, Bill.

North Jersey Baptist · #3 (**permalink**) 07-15-2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armourbearer

I'm glad I hold to the original. The revision is indefensible. Blessings, Bill.

Brother Matthew, can you elucidate more on your comment. When you refer to "the original" are you referencing the earlier LBC or the WCF.

Blessings to you also.

North Jersey Baptist · #4 (**permalink**) 07-15-2007, 11:37 PM

Comparing the 1689 LBC with the WCF:

1689 LBC

Quote:

3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.

WCF

Quote:

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.

The WCF omits the inference of an atonement for angels. Unless someone can provide me with a cogent argument for the LBC's position on God's Decree, I believe the WCF is more accurate in this instance.

armourbearer · #5 (**permalink**) 07-15-2007, 11:54 PM

Bill, I was referring to the WCF.

North Jersey Baptist · #6 (**permalink**) 07-16-2007, 09:08 AM

*bump*

Any Baptists have a comment to offer?

panta dokimazete · #7 (**permalink**) 07-16-2007, 09:59 AM

nope - I hold to the WCF on this.

Calvibaptist · #8 (**permalink**) 07-16-2007, 10:54 AM

Wow, I hadn't noticed this specifically. The only thing I can imagine that my Baptist forbears were saying is that all blessing from God come through the cross of Christ. No angel is, by nature, eternal and deserving of eternal life. I don't think the LBC is saying the angels were "atoned for" by the cross of Christ, but that, they depend on the cross of Christ for their very existence. As such, their eternal existence is dependent on the cross of Christ as well.

Now, after defending their statement, I would rather see the WCF statement any day because it avoids the questions.

Bodigean · #9 (**permalink**) 07-18-2007, 05:31 PM

Perhaps they were thinking of this passage of scripture: KJV Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

What does the Savoy Confession say on this point? I don't have a copy of it.

Blueridge Believer · #10 (**permalink**) 07-18-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaptistInCrisis

I quote from chapter three sections 3 & 4 of the 1689 LBC:

Angels are predestined to eternal life through Jesus Christ?

Thoughts?

I think they clear it up a little with the final statement:

4. These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )

5. Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )