Here is a catina of quotes from Bullinger, Olevianus & Ursinus (co-authors of the Heidelberg Catechism), Guido de Bres (author of the Belgic Confession), John Calvin, The Synod of Dort, Francis Turretin, Matthew Henry, Charles Hodge, and The Synod of Utrecht of the Reformed Churches in the Netherlands:



Henry Bullinger:


Caspar Olevianus (co-author of the Heidelberg Catechism:


Zacharias Ursinus (co-author of the Heidelberg Catechism):


Guido de Bres (author of the Belgic Confession):


John Calvin:


The Synod of Dort (Canons of Dort):


Francis Turretin:


Matthew Henry:


Charles Hodge:


Synod of Utrecht of the Reformed Churches in the Netherlands:





For more, read this book, from which I gleaned the above quotes.

Joseph,

How "Federal Vision Firiendly" is this book?

Canon Press is basically the FV's publishing arm out of Doug Wilson's Church.

__________________
C. Matthew McMahon, Ph.D.
John 5:39, "...search the Scriptures..."

Dr. C. Matthew McMahon.com, www.apuritansmind.com and www.puritanpublications.com
Member - Christ Presbyterian Church, Professor at WTS for Puritan History & Theology.

Suggested Tag: "I'm not user friendly."

Life Maxim: Everyone seems normal until you get to know them.
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I haven't read this book, but it may be something like ed. by Gregg Strawbridge, in that it has contributions from the FV camp as well as those who would oppose it, etc.

__________________
Chris
Member at Grace Community Baptist Church, Mandeville, LA

Beware of a religion without holdfasts. But if I get a grip upon a doctrine they call me a bigot. Let them do so. Bigotry is a hateful thing, and yet that which is now abused as bigotry is a great virtue, and greatly needed in these frivolous times. I have been inclined lately to start a new denomination, and call it "the Church of the Bigoted." Spurgeon

Matt,

The book is highly recommended on the OPC denomination website, so I can't imagine it being a very bad book. You can check out the OPC book review here: http://www.opc.org/review.html?review_id=31

I'm halfway through the book, and I haven't seen any Federal-Vision stuff that I know of.

So far, I'm really enjoying it. I liked all the Reformed/Puritan quotes regarding presumptive regeneration. And I like the way they deal with Proverbs 22:6, Titus 1:6, etc.




[Edited on 1-16-2006 by biblelighthouse]

OK sounds good then. I'll order a copy.

More accurately, it is highly recommended by one pastor in the OPC. It's going way too far to say that it is highly recommended by the OPC or even by the site. Neither book reviews nor the Q and A's should be seen as representing the official OPC position on any issue, unless it's an issue on which the GA has spoken.

Articles and book reviews in New Horizons (the denominational magazine) have been the subject of some controversy in the past year, the most recent being a sharply critical review of Peter Enns book on inspiration.

There was a pretty vigorous debate between Ben Wickner (editor of the book in question) and another pastor, Stephen Doe, in "Ordained Servant" (the publication for OPC officers) recently over covenant succession and specifically, elder's children.

[Edited on 1-16-2006 by Pilgrim]

[Edited on 1-16-2006 by Pilgrim]

Here links to the articles from Ordained Servant on wayward children of church officers.

Stephen Doe: http://opc.org/OS/pdf/OSV12N1.pdf


Ben Wickner's response: http://opc.org/OS/pdf/OSV13N3.pdf

Chris, I did not say that it is highly recommended by the OPC. I said, "The book is highly recommended on the OPC denomination website." And my statement is 100% true.

And I never said that the book represents "the official OPC position" on anything. All I said was that I highly doubt that the OPC would permit a completely horrible theological book to be highly recommended on their denominational website.

I think inclusion of Pastor Bradley's book review on the website carries more weight than simply "one pastor in the OPC", because whoever controls the OPC website is OK with letting Bradley highly recommend the book there.

I realize not all OPC pastors would agree with Pastor Bradley. But the OPC denomination is responsible for what goes on their website.

Thank you for these links, Chris!! I look forward to reading both of these articles.

Dear Joseph,

Where can i order this book ?

__________________
* Ralph Wilms (7-10-1974)
* Church : Christengemeente Roermond (The Netherlands)
* Credobaptist who hold towards Covenant Theology
* Husband of Reena & father of Naomie and Gideon
* 1729 Goat Yard Declaration of Faith
* 1646 & 1689 Baptist Confession of faith
* 1595 The Lambeth Articles
* 1618-1619 The Canons of Dordt

I also thought you would like to know that R. C. Sproul Jr. wrote the forward to the book.

You can order it from Covenant Media Foundation, Canon Press, Exodus Provisions, or Amazon.com for $16.00.

But the CHEAPEST price I found is at Apologia Book Shoppe, where the book is only $13.00 brand new!

Joseph Wrote:-
{moderated}

This thread was not placed for debate. Keep to the topic.

[Edited on 1-16-2006 by Martin Marprelate]

[Edited on 1-16-2006 by Scott Bushey]

Iam also wondering whom besides Doug Wilson is also connected with FV ? If there FV is such a bad theology why is Doug Wilon still be a part of this book ?

The common opinion of the Reformed is that the baptism of infants (at least of the elect) presupposes regeneration as already effected because that which is not cannot be sealed by baptism. And this opinion appears to me most agreeable to the truth. Be sure, baptism itself does not effect regeneration as the papists suppose. Nor are the regenerating influences of the Holy Spirit confined to external baptism as the Lutherans [and heretical FV] would have it.

-Peter Van Mastricht, Treatise on regeneration p 53-54

__________________
*Peter Gray* Elkins Park RPCNA

"Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. " Mk 9:24
"The greatest thing we can desire, next to the glory of God, is our own salvation; and the sweetest thing we can desire is the assurance of our salvation. In this life we cannot get higher than to be assured of that which in the next life is to be enjoyed. All saints shall enjoy a heaven when they leave this earth; some saints enjoy a heaven while they are here on earth." Joseph Caryl

I have two questions for you:

1) Can you document any proof that FV people consider the "regenerating influences of the Holy Spirit" to be "confined to external baptism"? This accusation is new to me.

2) If the above belief makes FV heretical (assuming they believe that), then are you suggesting that Lutherans are heretical too? After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Just be consistent one way or the other. Anathematize both, or neither at all.


Hmmm . . . there is a Lutheran pastor who is a member on this board. I would like to hear straight from him whether Lutherans believe that regeneration is "confined" to external baptism.



[Edited on 1-17-2006 by biblelighthouse]

I understand Van Mastricht to mean the Holy Spirit necessarily regenerates because of baptism in Lutheranism. Not that the Spirit can only regenerate at baptism, but it always does. So the Spirit is confined rather than blowing where it listeth.

There's a big difference between FV and Lutheranism. Lutherans are in grave error for sure but FVers were illumined by the truth and departed to error. Lutheranism has held Baptismal Regeneration since the 16th century but FV is a movement from within Reformed Christianity, which progressed further in the reformation from popery. FV is retrogression back to the whoredoms of the Romish harlot. Lutheranism never completely left Rome's idolatries. FV is a dog that returns to its vomit. And I only speak of their commonalities, FV goes further than Lutheranism.

Though I would take issue with the issue that Lutherans follow Romish "idolatries", you (or Van Mastricht) are otherwise correct. Lutherans DO teach baptismal regeneration. When the Augsburg Confession was presented to the papists the article on baptism received their full approval.

Now, they have good reasons for holding such a position. E.g., justification is not based upon choice, feelings, experiences, etc., but only upon God's infallible promise given in His *external* work - the sacrament of baptism.

But my being a 5-pointer presents some interesting theological problems in regards to baptism. Do I hold that it is regenerative? Yes, but only for the elect. Otherwise I'd have to abandon the 5 points or, holding to them, I'd have to teach that ever single person who was ever baptized is elect. Neither is a viable option.

So ... does such regeneration take place at the moment of baptism? Not necessarily. The Spirit is not "confined" to a particular moment or action and so can work regeneration when He wills. The thing is when an elect person IS regenrated, it must be related back to his (infant) baptism. Hence NO new baptism is called for since such a thing would in effect be calling God a liar.

My "5-point baptism theology" is anathema to Lutherans. But is it harmonious with the WC? I recently went through the OPC's study of the Westminster Standards and G. I. Williamson said it's not. Yet others say it is.

__________________
Pastor Kevin Guillory
St. Andrew Lutheran Church
Baltimore, MD

"I don't interpret Scripture. Scripture interprets itself. And in the process ... scripture interprets me."

WCF
CHAPTER XXVIII.
Of Baptism.
I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church, but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, or his ingrafting into Christ, of regeneration, of remission of sins, and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in newness of life: which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in his Churchy until the end of the world.


WCF
CHAPTER XXVIII.
Of Baptism.
V. Although it be a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance, yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it as that no person can be regenerated or saved without it, or that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.


WCF
CHAPTER XXVIII.
Of Baptism.
VI. The efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered; yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinancy the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited and conferred by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongeth unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in his appointed time.


WCF
CHAPTER XXVIII.
Of Baptism.
VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered to any person.


Well, from what I can see above, you sound pretty on-target to me.