 » Site Navigation | | | |  | 
07-18-2007, 10:35 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 687
Thanks: 14
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
| | | Piper/Grudem Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood
Is this book any good? The reviews on Amazon are mixed (unsurprisingly) between 5/5 from the complementarians to 1/5 from the liberals.
Has anybody read it? I'm considering buying it. It's an issue that I will have to come up against (unfortunately) in the next few years, and I would like the best defense I can get.
Are there better works out there defending complementarianism (aside from the scriptures of course  )?
|
07-19-2007, 12:16 AM
| | Puritanboard Doctor | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: LA
Posts: 9,870
Thanks: 860
Thanked 765 Times in 474 Posts
| |
Grudem is a good writer and a (usually!  ) fine exegete; well, he is thorough anyway. When I read Grudem's systematics I remember that section to be quite good.
__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College
|
07-19-2007, 05:06 AM
|  | Puritanboard Junior | | Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,678
Thanks: 88
Thanked 179 Times in 101 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Exagorazo  Is this book any good? The reviews on Amazon are mixed (unsurprisingly) between 5/5 from the complementarians to 1/5 from the liberals.
Has anybody read it? I'm considering buying it. It's an issue that I will have to come up against (unfortunately) in the next few years, and I would like the best defense I can get.
Are there better works out there defending complementarianism (aside from the scriptures of course )? | Grudem has a relatively new book out that I believe can be considered a "sequel" to this work called: Evangelical Feminism and Biblical Truth: An Analysis of More Than 100 Disputed Questions http://snipurl.com/1oi1k
This work takes into account developments since "the Big Blue book".
CT
__________________
Hermonta Godwin
Christ The King PCA
Raleigh, NC
|
07-19-2007, 05:45 AM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO - a little piece of heaven on earth!
Posts: 859
Thanks: 151
Thanked 146 Times in 74 Posts
| | |
Greetings:
John Piper's heterodoxy concerning "Joy preceeding faith" in the ordo salutis is rather perverse. I would not recommend anything by him because of this.
Grace and Peace,
-CH
__________________
In Essentials Unity, in non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity.
Robert Paul Wieland
Springs Reformed Presbyterian Church
Colorado Springs, CO
RPCNA
|
07-19-2007, 07:13 AM
|  | Puritanboard Freshman | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Langhorne, PA
Posts: 247
Thanks: 8
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
| | |
Both books are excellent!
__________________
John
Evangelical Free Church, no offices held
Langhorne, PA
[B]δός δοξαν τῳ θεῳ.[/B]
[B]ιδου ποιω τα εσχατα ως τα πρωτα.
הבל הבלים[/B]
|
07-19-2007, 08:42 AM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 914
Thanks: 2
Thanked 12 Times in 4 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinandHodges Greetings:
John Piper's heterodoxy concerning "Joy preceeding faith" in the ordo salutis is rather perverse. I would not recommend anything by him because of this.
Grace and Peace,
-CH |
I completely disagree. I heartily recommend him.
|
07-19-2007, 09:20 AM
| | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 687
Thanks: 14
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
| | |
I'm going to pick a copy of it up tomorrow. I've also got a copy of "Women in the Church", edited by Andreas Kostenberger, Thomas Schreiner and H. Scott Baldwin, which is supposed to be great.
|
07-19-2007, 09:44 AM
| | Puritanboard Doctor | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: LA
Posts: 9,870
Thanks: 860
Thanked 765 Times in 474 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinandHodges Greetings:
John Piper's heterodoxy concerning "Joy preceeding faith" in the ordo salutis is rather perverse. I would not recommend anything by him because of this.
Grace and Peace,
-CH | Who knew? Piper was a closet Arminian after all!
I have been blessed by Piper's heavier works. He and Grudem are excellent helps on complementarianism.
__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College
|
07-19-2007, 10:36 AM
| | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO - a little piece of heaven on earth!
Posts: 859
Thanks: 151
Thanked 146 Times in 74 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Draught Horse Who knew? Piper was a closet Arminian after all!
I have been blessed by Piper's heavier works. He and Grudem are excellent helps on complementarianism. | Greetings:
Unfazed.
What was it Francis Schaeffer once said? "Heterodoxy in one generation leads to heresy in the next?"
Sorry, there are alot of better books done by men who do not hold to a heterodoxy on the same subject. I would rather sponsor them then the likes of a Piper, or a Frame or a Packer.
Grace and Peace,
-CH
__________________
In Essentials Unity, in non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity.
Robert Paul Wieland
Springs Reformed Presbyterian Church
Colorado Springs, CO
RPCNA
|
07-19-2007, 10:53 AM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: Perth, Australia.
Posts: 641
Thanks: 81
Thanked 221 Times in 104 Posts
| |
Dear CH, Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinandHodges What was it Francis Schaeffer once said? "Heterodoxy in one generation leads to heresy in the next?"
Sorry, there are alot of better books done by men who do not hold to a heterodoxy on the same subject. I would rather sponsor them then the likes of a Piper, or a Frame or a Packer. | It all depends on how serious the heterodoxy is. There are some issues Christians are free to disagree on. There are others they're not.
Just because someone get's a (minor?) doctrine wrong, it doesn't mean we've got nothing to learn from them.
I'm sure John Piper is a man who is way more godly than me ...
Indeed, when it comes to the women's issue, we need to carefully read all sides of the debate so we know how to engage the liberals properly and fairly (and with grace).
I think the Piper and Grudem volume is excellent, not least because it has so many contributors who are authorities is many different fields. Don Carson's treatment of 1 Cor. 14:33bff. is especially brilliant.
Every blessing.
__________________
Marty
"There is nothing so necessary to draw us to repentance as good thoughts of God." (Thomas Manton)
|
07-19-2007, 11:44 AM
| | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO - a little piece of heaven on earth!
Posts: 859
Thanks: 151
Thanked 146 Times in 74 Posts
| | |
Greetings:
Minor? That Joy preceeds faith in Justification? That before you are justified by faith you have to experience joy in God?
-CH
__________________
In Essentials Unity, in non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity.
Robert Paul Wieland
Springs Reformed Presbyterian Church
Colorado Springs, CO
RPCNA
|
07-19-2007, 11:53 AM
| | Puritanboard Junior | | Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,678
Thanks: 88
Thanked 179 Times in 101 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinandHodges Greetings:
Unfazed.
What was it Francis Schaeffer once said? "Heterodoxy in one generation leads to heresy in the next?"
Sorry, there are alot of better books done by men who do not hold to a heterodoxy on the same subject. I would rather sponsor them then the likes of a Piper, or a Frame or a Packer.
Grace and Peace,
-CH | Alright, I am interested in more books on this subject. Please inform us on these better books.
CT
__________________
Hermonta Godwin
Christ The King PCA
Raleigh, NC
|
07-19-2007, 11:53 AM
| | Puritanboard Doctor | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: LA
Posts: 9,870
Thanks: 860
Thanked 765 Times in 474 Posts
| | |
So Packer and Frame are also heterodox?
__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College
|
07-19-2007, 04:50 PM
|  | Puritanboard Junior | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sandy, OR
Posts: 1,065
Thanks: 152
Thanked 172 Times in 107 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianTrader Alright, I am interested in more books on this subject. Please inform us on these better books.
CT |
Truly. I really would be surprised to find anything else out there that is equal to those works. The Grudem/Piper books are sound and thorough, and the collection edited by Kostenberger, et al, is fine as well, although from what I remeber of it, a little less engaging. If I remember correctly, I thought that Grudem and Piper were a little more clear about where they came down on the issue than was the Kostenberger volume, which seemed to focus a little too much on technical aspects of the debate than on the theology behind it. Still, it contained some helpful essays.
__________________
Adam J. Myer
Waiting on the September accessions board.
Evergreen PCA
Salem, Oregon
|
07-19-2007, 06:05 PM
| | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 687
Thanks: 14
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by CalvinandHodges Greetings:
Minor? That Joy preceeds faith in Justification? That before you are justified by faith you have to experience joy in God?
-CH | I've listened to one of Piper's lectures where he talked about this (the Constantine one, if I'm not mistaken), and this was definitely not what he says.
Agreed, it is a bit weird, but if I only take advice from people with whom I agree on everything, then I will never listen to anybody. For instance, it could be true that Greg Bahnsen agreed with Norm Shephard on justification (I don't know if this is true yet, BTW). Should then I stop listening to his works on apologetics, which I thought were great before I found that out?
|
07-19-2007, 06:19 PM
| | Puritanboard Doctor | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: LA
Posts: 9,870
Thanks: 860
Thanked 765 Times in 474 Posts
| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Exagorazo For instance, it could be true that Greg Bahnsen agreed with Norm Shephard on justification (I don't know if this is true yet, BTW). Should then I stop listening to his works on apologetics, which I thought were great before I found that out? | I have actually been told that I should stop listening to him for that and a myriad of other reasons. I ignored them.
__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College
| |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | |
|
