Need help finding a book.

youthevang · #1 (**permalink**) 08-06-2005, 11:47 AM

I was doing a search on a certain book with no prevail and I was wondering if one of you may be able to direct me in the right place. I am looking for Charles W. Baird's book The Presbyterian Liturgies: Historical Sketches. Does anyone know where I maybe able to find this book? Thanks.

blhowes · #2 (**permalink**) 08-06-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by youthevang
I was doing a search on a certain book with no prevail and I was wondering if one of you may be able to direct me in the right place. I am looking for Charles W. Baird's book The Presbyterian Liturgies: Historical Sketches. Does anyone know where I maybe able to find this book? Thanks.

I searched around a bit, found a lot of places that recommended the book, but none that sold it.

I did find a site called Find in a Library that listed the following places that may let you borrow the book:

Andover Newton Theol School
Episcopal Divinity School
Harvard University, Divinity School Library
Boston University
College of the Holy Cross
Providence College, Phillips Memorial Library
Gordon-Conwell Theol Seminary

[Edited on 8-6-2005 by blhowes]

youthevang · #3 (**permalink**) 08-06-2005, 03:58 PM

Thanks.

VirginiaHuguenot · #4 (**permalink**) 08-07-2005, 11:33 AM

Charles W. Baird and his brother Henry M. Baird were the two preeminent American Huguenot historians. Charles' book is called "Eutaxia or the Presbyterian Liturgies," 1855. A revised edition, under the title "A Chapter on Liturgies," was published in London, in 1856, by the Rev. Thomas Binney. Charles also published "A Book of Public Prayer," compiled from the Authorized Formularies of the Presbyterian Church, as prepared by Calvin, Knox, Bucer and others, 1857. I found the book for sale at Abebooks.com under the title "Chapter on Liturgies" for $200.

Quote:

Charles W. Baird: Eutaxia and liturgy
Presbyterian Heritage article by James H. Smylie
3/7/05

Presbyterian clergyman and professor, Charles W. Baird, shook up Presbyterian worshippers just 150 years ago with his historical study, Eutaxia ("œgood order"), in which he investigated Calvinist liturgical inheritance.

American colonial Presbyterians, highly suspicious of Roman Catholic and Anglican practices, were, on the whole, "œlow church" in their worship. The First and Second Great Awakenings"” with their emphasis on preaching, reading the Scriptures, Psalm singing and long, pastoral prayers"”influenced them. When Presbyterians organized a General Assembly in the 1780´s, they considered and adopted a Directory for the Worship of God (1788). At that time they considered discretionary prayers, but eliminated them for a book of directions only.

Charles Baird and his family lived under this Directory in the early years of the nineteenth century. Baird was Princeton born. His father, Robert, was a Presbyterian minister. Robert, with his French spouse and family, spent much time in Europe, living in Paris and Geneva and visiting other places. The senior Baird promoted a revival of religion among Europeans. Son Charles studied at Union Theological Seminary (N.Y.) and at New York University, where he was recognized as a brilliant student. After brief service as chaplain at the U.S. Embassy in Rome, he returned to America and finally settled down as pastor in Rye, N.Y. During this time he published a history of the Huguenots, with whom he had been acquainted in Europe. He gave faces to those from the old world who had immigrated to this country. With this background he was able to help Presbyterians appreciate the richness of their heritage.

Source: The Presbyterian Outlook

[Edited on 12-17-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

C. Matthew McMahon · #5 (**permalink**) 08-07-2005, 08:55 PM

Some of these places may be of help, especially the search engines:

http://www.apuritansmind.com/BookLinks.htm

VirginiaHuguenot · #6 (**permalink**) 12-17-2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Aside from his pulpit labors he has accomplished much valuable literary work, as the following list of his publications will show: "Eutaxia or the Presbyterian Liturgies," 1855. A revised edition, under the title "A Chapter on Liturgies," was published in London, in 1856, by the Rev. Thomas Binney. "A Book of Public Prayer," compiled from the Authorized Formularies of the Presbyterian Church, as prepared by Calvin, Knox, Bucer and others, 1857. Dr. Charles W. Shields, in "Liturgia Expurgata", refers to these books as "the two learned and valuable works of the Rev. Charles W. Baird, to who belongs the credit of a first investigator and collector of the Presbyterian Liturgies."

VirginiaHuguenot · #7 (**permalink**) 07-24-2006, 01:11 PM

Hughes Oliphant Old quotes from Baird's work in Leading in Prayer: A Workbook for Ministers. Not surprisingly, it is also referenced by Jeffrey Meyers in The Lord's Service: The Grace of Covenant Renewal Worship.

This book is pretty hard to find, but I have learned that Eutaxia, or the Presbyterian Liturgies was reprinted in 1957 by Baker Book House.

[Edited on 7-24-2006 by VirginiaHuguenot]

NaphtaliPress · #8 (**permalink**) 07-24-2006, 01:26 PM

The following interesting section dealing with Baird appears in Frank J. Smith, Ph.D., D.D. with Chris Coldwell, "The Regulative Principle of Worship: Sixty Years in Reformed Literature Part One (1946"“1999), The Confessional Presbyterian, 2.106. This is a substantial piece and some nice things have been said about it. Available at http://www.cpjournal.com

[quote]Winward is also one of a number of writers, the most notable being W. D. Maxwell, and more recently D. G. Hart, who repeat the contention that Calvin believed in the necessity of set forms. This mistaken conclusion has been corrected by Dr. Rowland S. Ward in his recent lecture on the Westminster Directory for Public Worship.

Quote:

It has been claimed by Charles Baird that Calvin highly approved set forms of prayer from which ministers should not be allowed to vary offering the following translation from Calvin´s Latin letter of 1548 to Lord Somerset"¦. However, the standard English translation made in 1858 (shortly after Baird wrote) indicates the reference is to the importance of a set Catechism, not to a form of prayers.
Baird "¦ has been followed by too many who partially cite Baird´s purported quotation of Calvin in a context of prayer rather than catechesis, e.g. D. G. Hart, in his Recovering Mother Kirk (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2003) 26. Similarly, W. D.Maxwell, A History of Worship in the Church of Scotland (London: Oxford University Press, 1955) 72"“73, a standard but not always accurate writer, who purports to cite Calvin´s Latin Opera but it is in identical words to Baird´s translation. Baird also refers to Bingham´s Antiquities but the reference he gives [II, 747] is not relevant to the issue. Perhaps Baird worked from imperfect notes brought back from his period of study in Europe.48

48. Ward, "œThe Directory for Public Worship," 10, 11 n45. In this instance Winward is relying on an earlier work by Maxwell: Pehr Edwall, Eric Hayman, and William D. Maxwell, Ways of Worship, The Report of a Theological Commission of Faith and Order (London: SCM Press, 1951) 121.
{Ward's work is: Rowland S. Ward, "œThe Directory for Public Worship Prepared by the Assembly of Divines at Westminster in the Year 1644," Westminster Assembly 2004: A Conference on the Westminster Standards, Westminster Theological Seminary, Philadelphia Pa., November 21"“22, 2004 (Unpublished; MS dated February 18, 2006). One of those forthcoming P&R titles that as far as I know we're still awaiting.}

R. Scott Clark · #9 (**permalink**) 07-24-2006, 09:31 PM

I've seen used copies of the chapter and the larger vol.

Have you searched Bibliofind, bookfinder, abe, antiquarian, biblio, alibris?

I've found bookfinder.com to be the most useful lately.

rsc

VirginiaHuguenot · #10 (**permalink**) 10-04-2006, 03:48 PM

J.W. Alexander, letter dated June 13, 1855, Forty Years' Familiar Letters of James W. Alexander, D. D., Constituting, with the Notes, a Memoir of His Life (1860), p. 208:

Quote:

If the Eutaxian Liturgy come into actuality, the only result will be to train people for the "Common Prayer."

polemic_turtle · #11 (**permalink**) 10-04-2006, 05:36 PM

Presbyterian Liturgies: Historical Sketches for $27. Actually was reprinted by Wipf & Stock last month, it says. Wow, what a coincidence, huh?

VirginiaHuguenot · #12 (**permalink**) 10-04-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by polemic_turtle
Presbyterian Liturgies: Historical Sketches for $27. Actually was reprinted by Wipf & Stock last month, it says. Wow, what a coincidence, huh?

Wow! Good find, Tyler!

polemic_turtle · #13 (**permalink**) 10-04-2006, 05:55 PM

Glad I can help!

I found the new reprint through Froogle on Walmart's site. Although they didn't have it, they had the ISBN, which turned up the book. Cheers!

VirginiaHuguenot · #14 (**permalink**) 10-04-2006, 05:56 PM

For the record, the new reprint ISBN is 1597529079.

It is also available at the sources listed here and can be obtained directly from Wipf & Stock here ($21.60).

[Edited on 10-5-2006 by VirginiaHuguenot]

VirginiaHuguenot · #15 (**permalink**) 10-05-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by polemic_turtle
Glad I can help!

I found the new reprint through Froogle on Walmart's site. Although they didn't have it, they had the ISBN, which turned up the book. Cheers!

Wal-Mart surprises me sometimes. First, Turretin, now this. Go figure!

R. Scott Clark · #16 (**permalink**) 10-05-2006, 05:25 PM

just received several copies.

rsc

Quote:

Originally posted by youthevang
I was doing a search on a certain book with no prevail and I was wondering if one of you may be able to direct me in the right place. I am looking for Charles W. Baird's book The Presbyterian Liturgies: Historical Sketches. Does anyone know where I maybe able to find this book? Thanks.

Philip A · #17 (**permalink**) 10-10-2006, 07:58 PM

I just got my copy in the mail today. Lookin' so good!

VirginiaHuguenot · #18 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 11:22 PM

I got my copy too. It's good for historical reference purposes. I'm glad to finally have it in my library. I agree very much with J.W. Alexander's remark, however. The goal of Baird's book is the promotion not of reformation but of liturgical innovation in worship under the guise of Reformed 'tradition.'

There is a helpful historical analysis of this book by Julius Melton in Presbyterian Worship in America.

On a lighter note, I found this anecdote (pp. 83-84) by Baird amusing:

Quote:

We may be allowed to vary these souvenirs by adducing one of the more lively cast. It is connected with the baptismal service. When the famous Claude was pastor of the church at Charenton, near Paris (about the middle of the seventeenth century), he was called on one occasion to perform the marriage ceremony between two Huguenots in high life; of whom the bridegroom was a decrepit septuagenerian, leading to the altar a young girl of some sixteen summers. As the minister saw this ill-matched couple advancing up the aisle to meet him, whether by accident or design we cannot say, he opened his book to the baptismal form, and addressed the disconcerted bridegroom with the interrogation: "Dost thou here present this child to be baptized?"

armourbearer · #19 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 11:33 PM

but with hand over face.

VirginiaHuguenot · #20 (**permalink**) 01-23-2007, 12:52 PM

Eutaxia is available online here.

VirginiaHuguenot · #21 (**permalink**) 02-22-2007, 10:52 AM

Baird's book is now available at Reformation Heritage Books.