Thread: Jane Austen

When I was in 9th grade, I forced myself through Sense & Sensibility on my own for extra credit. My attention span was lacking and my sense of humor was not well developed then, to say the least, so my appreciation for the book hovered around 0. When I was a senior in high school, for some reason I thought I'd give Jane Austen another try, so I rented the BBC version of Pride & Prejudice, thinking that I would read the book if I liked the movie.

Side story there: I watched the movie alone, not knowing anything really about the book or movie beforehand. DVDs were still fairly new then, to me at least. There were two discs in the case, and I assumed that the second was a special features disc, as it was with the only other DVD I had played for myself, The Lord of the Rings. So I put in Disc 1 and watched the whole thing. The "ending" greatly perplexed me as I didn't think Jane Austen was the sort of author who wrote unhappy and surprising endings. The last scene on the disc happened to be where (minor spoilers) the main male character comes to profess his love for the main female character and both end up highly insulted by the encounter. So I closed up the movie, rather unsatisfied, and returned it to the store. Not until I was talking with friends a couple weeks later did I realize what happened. Disc 2 was of course the second half of the movie. Greatest blonde moment of my life.

Anyway, I've been on a Jane Austen audiobook kick for the last several months, listening to Persuasion, Northanger Abbey, and now Emma. I had read Persuasion before and enjoyed the second reading very much; it is probably my favorite novel. Now I wonder, contrary to my first impressions, what's not to like about Jane Austen? She had a brilliant wit and a fantastic understanding of human nature, especially of the faults particular to men and women that cause them and others the most misery. Her novels are hilarious and even edifying in a sense. They provoke thought and, in their own discreet way, warn against vice and folly and promote virtue and discretion. And of course they manage to satisfy the romantic streak common to most girls in a very classy way.

On that note, I have a hint for young men in search of a wife: If you should find yourself seriously interested in a young woman who likes Jane Austen novels (which I would say is a favorable sign of her sensibility), buy her the Jane Austen movie of her choice for no particular occasion (avoiding the latest Pride & Prejudice adaptation if at all possible, though you you'll have to defer to her preferences if that is what she wants). Even if it is 300 minutes long, watch the entire movie with her. You can take breaks to lift weights or go do yard work like the manly man that you are if you feel the need. But if you have a brain and a functional sense of humor, you *will* like at least some parts of the movie, and you will win serious, serious approval points with her. Why, I accepted my husband's proposal just a couple of days after he did just this, and who will ever know how much this turn of events had to do with his small sacrifice?

Thanks for the advice. I do enjoy Jane Austen's wit.

I had a similar experience with Charlotte Bronte. I refused to read the Austin/Bronte books in high school and only recently (20 years later) have come back to try them out. I decided to read Jane Eyre with my wife, who was reading it for her book club. What a fantastic book! I loved it. Since that book I have put Jane Austin high on my reading list.

No less an authoriy than Vladimir Nabokov was a big Austin fan so she must be great!

Laura, how long have you been married? Did I ever congratulate you?

Originally Posted by Jon Peters

I had a similar experience with Charlotte Bronte. I refused to read the Austin/Bronte books in high school and only recently (20 years later) have come back to try them out. I decided to read Jane Eyre with my wife, who was reading it for her book club. What a fantastic book! I loved it. Since that book I have put Jane Austin high on my reading list.

No less an authoriy than Vladimir Nabokov was a big Austin fan so she must be great!

I need to read Jane Eyre again. That was a good book.

Originally Posted by Augusta

Laura, how long have you been married? Did I ever congratulate you?

Just a year and a half. I wasn't on the PB around that time, I don't think, so I didn't make any sort of announcement.

Austen over Bronte(s) any day if you ask me.
The Brontes were great writers, but spiritually all at sea (except maybe Anne)

Emily is a better writer than Anne, and Charlotte is the worst of the lot.

Originally Posted by py3ak

Emily is a better writer than Anne, and Charlotte is the worst of the lot.

If it's "literary merit" you mean, I think I would rank them
1) Emily
2) Charlotte
3) Anne

That wasn't what I meant in placing Anne ahead of her sisters though. She's the only one of the three I would look to for real edification (and to Jane Austen before any of them).
Dare I say it, though - I'm not sure Nabokov's endorsement is much of a recommendation.....!

Originally Posted by py3ak

Emily is a better writer than Anne, and Charlotte is the worst of the lot.

I have never read Anne Bronte, but Jane Eyre is one of mine and my husband's very favorite novels....and neither of us really liked Wuthering Heights, so I am going to have to disagree.

About Jane Austen: Laura, you have given every single guy on here immeasurable advice. (And though not explicitly for them, the married ones could also take heed!)

Jenny, I would rank Anne above Charlotte in terms of artistry because of her poetry. But I would definitely agree with you in thinking that Sir Walter Scott's appreciation of Austen is more of a recommendation than Nabokov's. C.S. Lewis well said that there are two critical defects with Austen's novels: they are too short, and there are too few.

Jane Eyre is no doubt Charlotte's best book, but she doesn't have Emily's faculty for language, and her mind seems very ungenial.

Originally Posted by py3ak

Jenny, I would rank Anne above Charlotte in terms of artistry because of her poetry. But I would definitely agree with you in thinking that Sir Walter Scott's appreciation of Austen is more of a recommendation than Nabokov's. C.S. Lewis well said that there are two critical defects with Austen's novels: they are too short, and there are too few.

Jane Eyre is no doubt Charlotte's best book, but she doesn't have Emily's faculty for language, and her mind seems very ungenial.

I maybe should re-read Wuthering Heights as an adult. I doubt it could trump Jane Eyre, though. I am not saying Jane Eyre is her best book, but one of THE best books.

I love Jane Austen almost more than my sisters. We as men should be comfortable in all walks of life. Whether in the domestic confines of the home reading a good book with our sisters/wife or out in the field working/hunting. Manliness is more than just lifting weights, it's about virtue and godliness. Austen will help to develop this. (Although it never hurts to take an hour or two at the range afterward.)

Originally Posted by he beholds

Originally Posted by py3ak

Jenny, I would rank Anne above Charlotte in terms of artistry because of her poetry. But I would definitely agree with you in thinking that Sir Walter Scott's appreciation of Austen is more of a recommendation than Nabokov's. C.S. Lewis well said that there are two critical defects with Austen's novels: they are too short, and there are too few.

Jane Eyre is no doubt Charlotte's best book, but she doesn't have Emily's faculty for language, and her mind seems very ungenial.

I maybe should re-read Wuthering Heights as an adult. I doubt it could trump Jane Eyre, though. I am not saying Jane Eyre is her best book, but one of THE best books.

Yes, I thought you might be saying that, but doing so goes a great deal too far.

Originally Posted by py3ak

Jenny, I would rank Anne above Charlotte in terms of artistry because of her poetry. But I would definitely agree with you in thinking that Sir Walter Scott's appreciation of Austen is more of a recommendation than Nabokov's. C.S. Lewis well said that there are two critical defects with Austen's novels: they are too short, and there are too few.

True, true. Cf. Mark Twain's more famous quip that "Just the omission of Jane Austen's books alone would make a fairly good library out of a library that hadn't a book in it." I daresay he was just jealous.

Perhaps it is for the best, Laura. If there were enough of Austen to really immerse yourself in it might be too hard to turn from the Empress of English to almost anyone else.

Originally Posted by he beholds

Originally Posted by py3ak

Emily is a better writer than Anne, and Charlotte is the worst of the lot.

I have never read Anne Bronte, but Jane Eyre is one of mine and my husband's very favorite novels....and neither of us really liked Wuthering Heights, so I am going to have to disagree.

About Jane Austen: Laura, you have given every single guy on here immeasurable advice. (And though not explicitly for them, the married ones could also take heed!)

I am the opposite - I actually hate Jane Eyre with a passion, but I love Wuthering Heights... You might give Wuthering Heights another go as an adult. I did try to read it when I was a little younger and I didn't like or understand it half as much. I've never been able to make myself like Jane Eyre though - and I've tried multiple times.

The Bronte sisters lived depressing lives and wrote comparably depressing books! That said, I got some value out of Jane Eyre for what it's worth.

My favourite Jane Austin book is "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies," co-authored by Seth Grahame-Smith.

Originally Posted by Montanablue

I am the opposite - I actually hate Jane Eyre with a passion, but I love Wuthering Heights... You might give Wuthering Heights another go as an adult. I did try to read it when I was a little younger and I didn't like or understand it half as much. I've never been able to make myself like Jane Eyre though - and I've tried multiple times.

Kathleen, your opinions tend to be unexpected and interesting!
Can you say why you hate Jane Eyre? Especially if you love Wuthering Heights.
They're really quite alike in lots of ways after all - same hero, in essence!!
W H was always my favourite of the two (though I'm not sure if I understand it exactly) but I found them both compelling, unputdownable stories. It's one of the things I like less about them now. I distrust the whole Romantic "passion is everything" mindset - Marianne Dashwood would have adored both those books, wouldn't she?!

Originally Posted by JennyG

Originally Posted by Montanablue

I am the opposite - I actually hate Jane Eyre with a passion, but I love Wuthering Heights... You might give Wuthering Heights another go as an adult. I did try to read it when I was a little younger and I didn't like or understand it half as much. I've never been able to make myself like Jane Eyre though - and I've tried multiple times.

Kathleen, your opinions tend to be unexpected and interesting!
Can you say why you hate Jane Eyre? Especially if you love Wuthering Heights.
They're really quite alike in lots of ways after all - same hero, in essence!!
W H was always my favourite of the two (though I'm not sure if I understand it exactly) but I found them both compelling, unputdownable stories. It's one of the things I like less about them now. I distrust the whole Romantic "passion is everything" mindset - Marianne Dashwood would have adored both those books, wouldn't she?!

I dislike Mr. Rochester very much and I feel that the novel romanticizes him to a certain extent. I think that if the book had ended with Jane leaving him, and living with her cousins and teaching school, I would have been quite satisfied. As it was, I was horribly disappointed when she went back to him in the end.

In Wuthering Heights, I also felt little sympathy for both Heathcliff and Catherine, but I didn't think that they were romanticized - their flaws were easy to see and the ends they met seemed (to me) to be rather fitting.

My view is probably colored by my experience in a Romantic Poetry and Prose class in college. We studied Jane Eyre and many of the women in the class swooned over Mr. Rochester. When I wondered aloud how well we could think of a man who had locked his wife in an attic - even if she was mad - they were furious! Of course, I am reading it through a 21st century lens, but I still found the their unqualified adoration of him to be a bit much - and I probably have a stronger reaction to the book because of it!

I love how this Jane Austen thread has become a thread about the collective works of the Bronte sisters.

Originally Posted by Hamalas

I love how this Jane Austen thread has become a thread about the collective works of the Bronte sisters.

absolutely not - didn't you notice how in my last post I tied it firmly to Marianne Dashwood??
Besides, you can't really fully enter into Austen without putting her alongside the Great Antiausten, aka Clan Bronte.
I think all parties knew it themselves - ok many people like both I know, but still in a deeper and truer sense you're either Sense or Sensibility. To paraphrase W s Gilbert

Every bookish girl or man,
Even when (s)he's just a mite,
Is either a little Bronte fan
Or else a little Austen-ite

Kathleen, I don't know if you would agree, but from your critique of Jane Eyre, I think I'd put you down as essentially an Austenite!

Originally Posted by JennyG

Originally Posted by Hamalas

I love how this Jane Austen thread has become a thread about the collective works of the Bronte sisters.

absolutely not - didn't you notice how in my last post I tied it firmly to Marianne Dashwood??
Besides, you can't really fully enter into Austen without putting her alongside the Great Antiausten, aka Clan Bronte.
I think all parties knew it themselves - ok many people like both I know, but still in a deeper and truer sense you're either Sense or Sensibility. To paraphrase W s Gilbert

Every bookish girl or man,
Even when (s)he's just a mite,
Is either a little Bronte fan
Or else a little Austen-ite

Kathleen, I don't know if you would agree, but from your critique of Jane Eyre, I think I'd put you down as essentially an Austenite!

I embrace the label of Austenite wholeheartedly!

Originally Posted by Montanablue

Originally Posted by JennyG

Originally Posted by Montanablue

I am the opposite - I actually hate Jane Eyre with a passion, but I love Wuthering Heights... You might give Wuthering Heights another go as an adult. I did try to read it when I was a little younger and I didn't like or understand it half as much. I've never been able to make myself like Jane Eyre though - and I've tried multiple times.

Kathleen, your opinions tend to be unexpected and interesting!
Can you say why you hate Jane Eyre? Especially if you love Wuthering Heights.
They're really quite alike in lots of ways after all - same hero, in essence!!
W H was always my favourite of the two (though I'm not sure if I understand it exactly) but I found them both compelling, unputdownable stories. It's one of the things I like less about them now. I distrust the whole Romantic "passion is everything" mindset - Marianne Dashwood would have adored both those books, wouldn't she?!

I dislike Mr. Rochester very much and I feel that the novel romanticizes him to a certain extent. I think that if the book had ended with Jane leaving him, and living with her cousins and teaching school, I would have been quite satisfied. As it was, I was horribly disappointed when she went back to him in the end.

In Wuthering Heights, I also felt little sympathy for both Heathcliff and Catherine, but I didn't think that they were romanticized - their flaws were easy to see and the ends they met seemed (to me) to be rather fitting.

My view is probably colored by my experience in a Romantic Poetry and Prose class in college. We studied Jane Eyre and many of the women in the class swooned over Mr. Rochester. When I wondered aloud how well we could think of a man who had locked his wife in an attic - even if she was mad - they were furious! Of course, I am reading it through a 21st century lens, but I still found the their unqualified adoration of him to be a bit much - and I probably have a stronger reaction to the book because of it!

I love Mr. Rochester. I wonder why some of us do and some don't, and if that's what makes the book for me.
I have never fell in love with any of Jane Austen's men.
I don't think, however, that his faults are romanticized. I think his flaws are exposed from the get-go, and it is her virtue, and that alone, which is able to love him, WITH flaws.

Originally Posted by JennyG

Every bookish girl or man,
Even when (s)he's just a mite,
Is either a little Bronte fan
Or else a little Austen-ite

I think I'm a little Bronte fan, though it's just Jane Eyre.

Kathleen, I don't know if you would agree, but from your critique of Jane Eyre, I think I'd put you down as essentially an Austenite!

I embrace the label of Austenite wholeheartedly!

yay, me too!
I think it's a bit like how they say you're either a cat person or a dog person, or (in Scotland) you're either an Edinburgh person or a Glasgow person....
the Austen/Bronte divide stamps the personality all the way through.
I too have felt the allure of the Bronte heroes, but fall in love with them? I don't think so.
Now, the Austen heroes....ah, that's a different thing, the only problem would be in choosing between them. I love them all, even the deeply unfashionable Edmund Bertram.
we can draw a veil over Jessi's deplorable lack of taste (only teasing!)

Originally Posted by JennyG

Kathleen, I don't know if you would agree, but from your critique of Jane Eyre, I think I'd put you down as essentially an Austenite!

I embrace the label of Austenite wholeheartedly!

yay, me too!
I think it's a bit like how they say you're either a cat person or a dog person, or (in Scotland) you're either an Edinburgh person or a Glasgow person....
the Austen/Bronte divide stamps the personality all the way through.
I too have felt the allure of the Bronte heroes, but fall in love with them? I don't think so.
Now, the Austen heroes....ah, that's a different thing, the only problem would be in choosing between them. I love them all, even the deeply unfashionable Edmund Bertram.
we can draw a veil over Jessi's deplorable lack of taste (only teasing!)

Lemme guess...you are a cat person?

And I like Austen characters, just not as much. It is too predictable that the guy who is at first a jerk will turn out to be Prince Charming.

Originally Posted by he beholds

Lemme guess...you are a cat person?

you think that goes with Austen? hmm, but look what a moody so-and-so Mr Rochester is. He's the cat-like character. Dogs are sunny and sensible and Austen!

And I like Austen characters, just not as much. It is too predictable that the guy who is at first a jerk will turn out to be Prince Charming.

no no no that's only Mr Darcy, and he was the one and only, original and best of that stereotype. All the others are charming consistently.

Originally Posted by he beholds

Originally Posted by JennyG

Kathleen, I don't know if you would agree, but from your critique of Jane Eyre, I think I'd put you down as essentially an Austenite!

I embrace the label of Austenite wholeheartedly!

yay, me too!
I think it's a bit like how they say you're either a cat person or a dog person, or (in Scotland) you're either an Edinburgh person or a Glasgow person....
the Austen/Bronte divide stamps the personality all the way through.
I too have felt the allure of the Bronte heroes, but fall in love with them? I don't think so.
Now, the Austen heroes....ah, that's a different thing, the only problem would be in choosing between them. I love them all, even the deeply unfashionable Edmund Bertram.
we can draw a veil over Jessi's deplorable lack of taste (only teasing!)

Lemme guess...you are a cat person?

And I like Austen characters, just not as much. It is too predictable that the guy who is at first a jerk will turn out to be Prince Charming.

Not so, Jessi! Only in P&P is that true, unless it is so in Mansfield Park, which I haven't got to yet. I won't spoil the endings for people who have yet to read the others, but ... a certain sea-faring hero of one novel is certainly not presented poorly. And in Emma it is the heroine who is quite annoying and jerk-ish, in my view. I have hopes that a certain male non-jerk in the story will yet reform her.

I liked the little ditty about Bronte and Austen, Jenny.

Originally Posted by JennyG

Dare I say it, though - I'm not sure Nabokov's endorsement is much of a recommendation.....!

Don't say it!

Originally Posted by Laura

Originally Posted by he beholds

Originally Posted by JennyG

yay, me too!
I think it's a bit like how they say you're either a cat person or a dog person, or (in Scotland) you're either an Edinburgh person or a Glasgow person....
the Austen/Bronte divide stamps the personality all the way through.
I too have felt the allure of the Bronte heroes, but fall in love with them? I don't think so.
Now, the Austen heroes....ah, that's a different thing, the only problem would be in choosing between them. I love them all, even the deeply unfashionable Edmund Bertram.
we can draw a veil over Jessi's deplorable lack of taste (only teasing!)

Lemme guess...you are a cat person?

And I like Austen characters, just not as much. It is too predictable that the guy who is at first a jerk will turn out to be Prince Charming.

Not so, Jessi! Only in P&P is that true, unless it is so in Mansfield Park, which I haven't got to yet. I won't spoil the endings for people who have yet to read the others, but ... a certain sea-faring hero of one novel is certainly not presented poorly. And in Emma it is the heroine who is quite annoying and jerk-ish, in my view. I have hopes that a certain male non-jerk in the story will yet reform her.

I liked the little ditty about Bronte and Austen, Jenny.

Well, the heroine or hero is one way in the beginning and changed by the end. Does that work?
I think it's true in S&S, too.

-----Added 10/19/2009 at 08:44:27 EST-----

Originally Posted by JennyG

Originally Posted by he beholds

Lemme guess...you are a cat person?

you think that goes with Austen? hmm, but look what a moody so-and-so Mr Rochester is. He's the cat-like character. Dogs are sunny and sensible and Austen!

And I like Austen characters, just not as much. It is too predictable that the guy who is at first a jerk will turn out to be Prince Charming.

no no no that's only Mr Darcy, and he was the one and only, original and best of that stereotype. All the others are charming consistently.

Well, I don't like cats (and neither does my husband), so I assumed that would have to mean Jane Eyre people are dog people. Plus, it was a fifty-fifty shot and you are a woman and women often like cats, so I took my chances : )

I like Jane Austen and Emily Bronte and dislike both dogs and cats.

Well, I don't like cats (and neither does my husband), so I assumed that would have to mean Jane Eyre people are dog people. Plus, it was a fifty-fifty shot and you are a woman and women often like cats, so I took my chances : )

good thinking! actually I like both, that's why I was being cagey
That analogy was just off the cuff, and I would hate to have to produce a reasoned thesis tying the dog/cat thing to the Austen/Bronte!
I still think there's a serious point behind the dissimilarity of the writers though.
Young girls typically feed their imaginations on the emotional extremes of the Brontes - I know I did. Romantic excesses don't come without a price though, as Jane Austen knew. Catherine Morland and Marianne Dashwood are both studies in the dangers of that mindset.
It may or may not be relevant, but I've also seen an "early novella" of Charlotte's called "The Spell", published in 2005, that was fit to make a Christian queasy.
Feel free to take no notice - that's just my
I loved Kathleen's big gripe with Mr Rochester, - that he kept his wife shut up in the attic!! to be fair, he may have had some justification there at least, given that every time she escaped, she set fire to things.

I have never read any Jane Austen's books. I've never even heard of these authors.

But hearing you all talk about it on this thread, I think I just might head down to the store and pick up one to read.

Any recommendations?

I loved Kathleen's big gripe with Mr Rochester, - that he kept his wife shut up in the attic!! to be fair, he may have had some justification there at least, given that every time she escaped, she set fire to things.

Fair point Although, if I was shut in an attic, I might be prone to arson too...

There have been a couple of novelization's of "Bertha's story," the most common of which is "The Wide Sargasso Sea," I believe. I've always found the idea of knowing what the story behind Bertha was, although I've never read any of the novelizations. Has anyone else given them a go?

Originally Posted by ewenlin

I have never read any Jane Austen's books. I've never even heard of these authors.

But hearing you all talk about it on this thread, I think I just might head down to the store and pick up one to read.

Any recommendations?

For starters you might go with Northanger Abbey.

[quote=Montanablue;704215][quote]I loved Kathleen's big gripe with Mr Rochester, - that he kept his wife shut up in the attic!! to be fair, he may have had some justification there at least, given that every time she escaped, she set fire to things.

Fair point

Although, if I was shut in an attic, I might be prone to arson too...

equally fair point!!!

There have been a couple of novelization's of "Bertha's story," the most common of which is "The Wide Sargasso Sea," I believe. I've always found the idea of knowing what the story behind Bertha was, although I've never read any of the novelizations. Has anyone else given them a go?

I've read Wide Sargasso Sea, once, years ago. I seem to recall finding it depressing and not that engaging, but that might just be me...I don't even remember it well enough to give you a proper account of it, so don't go by that.

I have never read any Jane Austen's books. I've never even heard of these authors.

But hearing you all talk about it on this thread, I think I just might head down to the store and pick up one to read.

Any recommendations?

I don't think you could go wrong with any one of Jane Austen's. Northanger Abbey is loads of fun. It's slightly a one-off, in that some aspects might seem a little mysterious unless you realise it was written with the intention of "sending up" the sensational novels of the time. Be prepared to step into a different world!

Originally Posted by Montanablue

I loved Kathleen's big gripe with Mr Rochester, - that he kept his wife shut up in the attic!! to be fair, he may have had some justification there at least, given that every time she escaped, she set fire to things.

Fair point Although, if I was shut in an attic, I might be prone to arson too...

There have been a couple of novelization's of "Bertha's story," the most common of which is "The Wide Sargasso Sea," I believe. I've always found the idea of knowing what the story behind Bertha was, although I've never read any of the novelizations. Has anyone else given them a go?

I read Wide Sargasso Sea. I wasn't a big fan, though it was neat to have a story to put with Bertha, but I didn't really accept it as true.

I have bad news: Mr. Darcy is a fictional character.

Sorry.

I'm a huge Jane Austen fan as well! I love each of her books! Another one of my favorites is Elizabeth Gaskell! If you enjoy Austen, I would highly recommend North and South by Gaskell...truly a lovely story!

Originally Posted by py3ak

Originally Posted by ewenlin

I have never read any Jane Austen's books. I've never even heard of these authors.

But hearing you all talk about it on this thread, I think I just might head down to the store and pick up one to read.

Any recommendations?

For starters you might go with Northanger Abbey.

Off to the bookstore for me!