Franky Schaeffer's new memoir

KS_Presby · #1 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 08:48 PM

I recently came across this link from Doug Groothuis' blog. Has anyone here read this book. I did a search but couldn't find any posts about it. I had planned on suggesting some works of Schaeffer to my father (a non-believer). However Dad subscribes to The Nation.

calgal · #2 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KS_Presby

I recently came across this link from Doug Groothuis' blog. Has anyone here read this book. I did a search but couldn't find any posts about it. I had planned on suggesting some works of Schaeffer to my father (a non-believer). However Dad subscribes to The Nation.

What a self righteous arrogant writer and what a load of rubbish!

No words for Jane Smiley (who writes "intellectual Harlequin romances") other than "she is certainly going to be pleased with her eventual eternal destination"

Pleased to be "unteachable and ignorant"

SRoper · #3 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KS_Presby

I did a search but couldn't find any posts about it.

See this thread: Crazy for God.

a mere housewife · #4 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgal

No words for Jane Smiley (who writes "intellectual Harlequin romances") other than "she is certainly going to be pleased with her eventual eternal destination"

Pleased to be "unteachable and ignorant"

I hope I've way misunderstood somehow, but there's always the monkey wrench that God would have mercy and she might repent. I can't quite see my way clear to rejoicing in her damnation at this time.

clstamper · #5 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 06:16 PM

I've been working on a book on Dr. Schaeffer off and on for about fifteen years. While I consider much of his work simply brilliant, I have a few reservations about the man and his ministry. Much of Franky's bitter descriptions of his dad may be malevolent, but likely have some basis in fact.

Francis Schaeffer spent too many years off in Europe and was cut off from other Reformed people. He never really got over the fundamentalism of his early days and, as a Presbyterian, was a loose subscriptionist. Meanwhile, Francis lived in L'Abri, a parachurch la-la land -- and was essentially accountable to no one.

While Franky seems to be saying that Francis shouted Calvinism from the rooftops, the opposite was true for his public career. Francis' books tried to propose a "Christian Worldview" that was devoid of any serious theological foundation beyond inerrancy. Instead of directing people to John Calvin and Theodore Beza, he unintentionally pointed people to Ralph Reed and Pat Robertson.

Finally, the moral crises in the Schaeffer household should have been investigated. Where was the RPCES (now the PCA) during all this?

calgal · #6 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a mere housewife

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgal

No words for Jane Smiley (who writes "intellectual Harlequin romances") other than "she is certainly going to be pleased with her eventual eternal destination"

Pleased to be "unteachable and ignorant"

I hope I've way misunderstood somehow, but there's always the monkey wrench that God would have mercy and she might repent. I can't quite see my way clear to rejoicing in her damnation at this time.

My apologies: I did not word my post very well. After reading Ms Smiley's nauseating article, I got a pretty good glimpse into her motives and mindset. It is damnable unfortunately and it angers me to see her being put forth as "tolerant" in this strange world we live in. That being said, I do pray God can have mercy on her soul and certainly do not rejoice at the prospect of anyone's damnation.

Rather I pray God can turn their hearts from sin to Himself.

a mere housewife · #7 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 06:46 PM

Gail, thanks much for clarifying. I do understand the nausea over the damnable falsehood. I struggle to remember sometimes that I was once an open hater of God.

etexas · #8 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clstamper

I've been working on a book on Dr. Schaeffer off and on for about fifteen years. While I consider much of his work simply brilliant, I have a few reservations about the man and his ministry. Much of Franky's bitter descriptions of his dad may be malevolent, but likely have some basis in fact.

Francis Schaeffer spent too many years off in Europe and was cut off from other Reformed people. He never really got over the fundamentalism of his early days and, as a Presbyterian, was a loose subscriptionist. Meanwhile, Francis lived in L'Abri, a parachurch la-la land -- and was essentially accountable to no one.

While Franky seems to be saying that Francis shouted Calvinism from the rooftops, the opposite was true for his public career. Francis' books tried to propose a "Christian Worldview" that was devoid of any serious theological foundation beyond inerrancy. Instead of directing people to John Calvin and Theodore Beza, he unintentionally pointed people to Ralph Reed and Pat Robertson.

Finally, the moral crises in the Schaeffer household should have been investigated. Where was the RPCES (now the PCA) during all this?

I hear what you are saying, but as I said in anther post (in regard to Franky), there are no "perfect" earthly fathers. The man is letting bittrness eat him alive. Many of us had stern fathers and many of us have had to enter into the grace of the Holy Ghost to find the peace of forgiveness. I had to, many Christians have done so. I cannot repect a man who is now almost making this career out of "Dad Bashing"....sorry...want a perfect Father? Look towards Heaven. As far as Franky goes there is also this...who would even know who this cat was if it were not for his father?

Poimen · #9 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 07:30 PM

Even those of us who had very loving and nurturing fathers must see that this is only due to the goodness of our heavenly Father.

clstamper · #10 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 07:41 PM

I agree that Franky as made a career out of abusing his parents and the "fundies" he knew back in the 1970s. He feeds on the literati's resentment of evangelicals. While I think he is obsessive and deranged, I have no reason to call him a liar.

If Franky got his girlfriend pregnant, didn't somebody notice? Did Francis have any presbyterial oversight? If not, why was he carrying ordination from the RPCES and PCA?

etexas · #11 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clstamper

I agree that Franky as made a career out of abusing his parents and the "fundies" he knew back in the 1970s. He feeds on the literati's resentment of evangelicals. While I think he is obsessive and deranged, I have no reason to call him a liar.

If Franky got his girlfriend pregnant, didn't somebody notice? Did Francis have any presbyterial oversight? If not, why was he carrying ordination from the RPCES and PCA?

Brother, I do not call the man a liar....I just think he needs to "Get over it".

KS_Presby · #12 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRoper

Quote:

Originally Posted by KS_Presby

I did a search but couldn't find any posts about it.

See this thread: Crazy for God.

Thanks for this. I hope to read this book soon and I'll post a review. Though it seems like Franky Schaeffer is going to come across like a total whiner, it seems the right thing to do. It is hard for me to read modern autobiographies as I don't think people need to do an Oprahish tell all about every relationship. What does it really do other than make an attempt at looking superior to those close to you with a tour de force of every one else's sins? It will no doubt be a sad book.

bookslover · #13 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 10:07 PM

Frank Schaeffer is a classic case of child-of-a-famous-parent syndrome. In his own life and career, he has never been able to escape the shadow of his famous parents (despite their many alleged faults). So, at 55, he's still trying to decide what he wants to be when he grows up.

It could be worse: two of the singer and actor Bing Crosby's (1903-1977) four children by his first wife ended up committing suicide.

I'm not excusing Schaeffer's attitudes and actions, but it truly can be difficult for children of the famous to escape that shadow.

Scott · #14 (**permalink**) 10-29-2007, 11:36 PM

I have read several of Frank's books and his early life strikes me as an unregenerate child in a Christian household (albeit one with noteworthy problems). In his Calvin Becker triology he rails against the religious perspective of his parents and sisters, and yet his own interests are entirely base and secular (they often involve women, at least desires for them). There is nothing of a heart with an interest in God.

Scott · #15 (**permalink**) 10-29-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clstamper

Meanwhile, Francis lived in L'Abri, a parachurch la-la land -- and was essentially accountable to no one.

Yes, I think this is a serious problem. Frank describes "church" as essentially his family getting together on Sunday mornings with his father preaching a sermon to the family and some other rubrics of a religious service. of course, it is all outside the visible church. There is no real church structure, even though Francis was ordained. It was really just family worship. I like Francis a lot, but this is always caused me serious concern.

BobVigneault · #16 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 08:10 AM

You are right on Chris. I love Big Frank's writings and he certainly helped to give voice to my discontent back in the day. In fact I enjoyed little Frankie's books for the same reason. It felt wonderful to see the problems that I saw in the church articulated by these men. The problem is, articulation of the problems is all they did. They did not offer any Biblical solutions. They didn't demonstrate how to synthesize Scripture with politics or art or church. So you are right, in giving no direction they left us open to the Moral Majority folks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clstamper

I've been working on a book on Dr. Schaeffer off and on for about fifteen years. While I consider much of his work simply brilliant, I have a few reservations about the man and his ministry. Much of Franky's bitter descriptions of his dad may be malevolent, but likely have some basis in fact.

Francis Schaeffer spent too many years off in Europe and was cut off from other Reformed people. He never really got over the fundamentalism of his early days and, as a Presbyterian, was a loose subscriptionist. Meanwhile, Francis lived in L'Abri, a parachurch la-la land -- and was essentially accountable to no one.

While Franky seems to be saying that Francis shouted Calvinism from the rooftops, the opposite was true for his public career. Francis' books tried to propose a "Christian Worldview" that was devoid of any serious theological foundation beyond inerrancy. Instead of directing people to John Calvin and Theodore Beza, he unintentionally pointed people to Ralph Reed and Pat Robertson.

Finally, the moral crises in the Schaeffer household should have been investigated. Where was the RPCES (now the PCA) during all this?

Pilgrim · #17 (**permalink**) 12-09-2007, 08:36 PM

While I'm no expert on Schaeffer, I think it's incorrect to say that there was no oversight, etc. He was involved in founding something called the International Presbyterian Church which still exists in Europe to this day. They held worship in a chapel near the chalet, which later burned, IIRC. I think the congregation in Switzerland there eventually split when two of his sons in law could not get along.

Pilgrim · #18 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 06:10 PM

Fathers and Sons - Books & Culture Response by Os Guinness

Daniel Ritchie · #19 (**permalink**) 02-26-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etexas

Quote:

Originally Posted by clstamper

I've been working on a book on Dr. Schaeffer off and on for about fifteen years. While I consider much of his work simply brilliant, I have a few reservations about the man and his ministry. Much of Franky's bitter descriptions of his dad may be malevolent, but likely have some basis in fact.

Francis Schaeffer spent too many years off in Europe and was cut off from other Reformed people. He never really got over the fundamentalism of his early days and, as a Presbyterian, was a loose subscriptionist. Meanwhile, Francis lived in L'Abri, a parachurch la-la land -- and was essentially accountable to no one.

While Franky seems to be saying that Francis shouted Calvinism from the rooftops, the opposite was true for his public career. Francis' books tried to propose a "Christian Worldview" that was devoid of any serious theological foundation beyond inerrancy. Instead of directing people to John Calvin and Theodore Beza, he unintentionally pointed people to Ralph Reed and Pat Robertson.

Finally, the moral crises in the Schaeffer household should have been investigated. Where was the RPCES (now the PCA) during all this?

I hear what you are saying, but as I said in anther post (in regard to Franky), there are no "perfect" earthly fathers. The man is letting bittrness eat him alive. Many of us had stern fathers and many of us have had to enter into the grace of the Holy Ghost to find the peace of forgiveness. I had to, many Christians have done so. I cannot repect a man who is now almost making this career out of "Dad Bashing"....sorry...want a perfect Father? Look towards Heaven. As far as Franky goes there is also this...who would even know who this cat was if it were not for his father?

Franky's exposure of his father's shortcomings is disrespectful.