What does forgiveness look/feel/sound like?

moselle · #1 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 04:35 PM

If you have been truly wronged - grievously sinned against - what does forgiveness look like?

I don't want to go into great detail, but when the person asked me to forgive them, I really wasn't sure how to respond because I was / am still reeling just a bit from the revelation of the offense. I'm not angry (at this point) and I don't want revenge (at this point). At the same time, I know that it may be a while before I come to terms with the issue.

Any help / Scripture references that I might meditate on? How do I approach communion on the Lord's Day?

GMcClain20 · #2 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 04:50 PM

Looking forward to some good advice on this as well! What does true biblical forgiveness look like practically speaking?

**PuritanCovenanter** · #3 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 05:19 PM

Here is Jay Adams on the topic.
http://pilgrimchristian.blogspot.com...y-e-adams.html

Quote:

THE correct answer to the question at the head of this chapter is essential. In any study, a proper understanding of basic issues is important early on as a foundation on which to build structures of truth. That is certainly the case when considering forgiveness. Until this basic question has been satisfactorily addressed, you will address other questions regarding forgiveness either unsatisfactorily or not at all.

I'm not so sure I see your point. Doesn't everyone know what forgiveness is? Why, when someone has wronged me, I expect him to come and apologize. Then I tell him, "That's OK." That's forgiveness isn't it?

No, I'm afraid it isn't. You see, many wrong ideas go about masquerading as forgiveness that are not biblical forgiveness at all. Indeed, probably most Christians have wrong ideas about forgiveness, just like those in the previous paragraph.

Well, I can't see where there's anything wrong with the ideas I just expressed. I'm baffled, I always thought forgiveness was one of those areas, unlike baptism and predestination, where there is no argument. You' re going to have to do some pretty fancy talking to convince me that I don't understand what forgiveness is.

I realize that. I also recognize that discussion of forgiveness is commonly neglected because everyone thinks he understands it when actually he doesn't. Take, for instance, your notion of apologizing. Where do you find that in the Bible? Do biblical writers, like many Christians writing today, ever equate apologizing with seeking forgiveness?

Well . . . no. I guess not. But everyone knows that apologizing is what you do when you seek forgiveness.

Frankly, I'm afraid that's what most Christians do think. But, as you will discover later on, apologizing is not only unscriptural, it is the world's unsatisfactory substitute for forgiveness. I don't want to discuss apologizing now, but I bring it up because you mentioned it. And what you said is a good example of what I have been talking about wrong assumptions that are so widespread that few ever think to question them.

Well, I guess I can't think of anything in the Bible that tells us to apologize, so perhaps there is a thing or two that I can learn about forgiveness after all. But I still can't see where apologizing is a substitute for forgiveness.

We'll come to that in good time, but first, as I said, it is important to build a proper biblical foundation for all such discussions. That's why, at this point, I want to talk about forgiveness itself. What is forgiveness anyway? There are at least two ways to answer that question.

What Forgiveness Does and Is

We can talk about what forgiveness does (i.e., what it accomplishes). To do so is to speak practically, in terms of its results. In such an answer our response would begin with words like these: Forgiveness is a process whereby . . .

That's one way to answer the question. Perhaps it is the principal way in which it has been answered by theologians and preachers over the years. As important as that answer is, it is not what I want to consider here.

The other way in which the question What is forgiveness may be answered is to discuss its nature or essence. That is to say, having boiled all else away, what is the irreducible element that is left that makes forgiveness forgiveness?

For many years I read about forgiveness, talked about forgiveness, preached forgiveness. And most of what I said was true. However, there was something missing, something that remained vague, unexplained - something intangible that dogged my steps. Then one day I began to think deeply about forgiveness. In the process I asked myself, What is forgiveness anyway? You know, I didn't have an answer. I simply couldn't state what, in its essence, forgiveness is. ?Is it a feeling? I wondered. But that didn't seem right. Doesn't God require me to forgive my brother, whether I feel like it or not? Unlike modern discussions of forgiveness, there is nothing in the Bible about feelings of forgiveness or having forgiving feelings toward another. No, that is clearly the wrong path to an answer. Well, then, what is forgiveness?

Thinking about the matter, I remembered that Paul tells us in Ephesians 4:32 to forgive one another just as God, for Christ's sake, has forgiven us. Among other things, I reasoned, that means our forgiveness is to be modeled after God's. In order to find out what forgiveness is I must study God's forgiveness. At last I have found the key to unlock the door to the meaning of forgiveness.

Obviously, when God forgives, He does not simply sit in the heavens and emote. So forgiveness isn't a feeling. If it were, we would never know that we have been forgiven. No, when God forgives, He goes on record. He says so. He declares, I will not remember your sins (Isa 43:25; see also Jer 31:34). Isn't that wonderful? When He forgives, God lets us know that He will no longer hold our sins against us. If forgiveness were merely an emotional experience, we would not know that we were forgiven. But praise God, we do, because forgiveness is a process at the end of which God declares that the matter of sin has been dealt with once and for all.

Now, what is that declaration? What does God do when He goes on record saying that our sins are forgiven? God makes a promise. Forgiveness is not a feeling; forgiveness is a promise!

Forgiveness Is a Promise

Never forget that fact. It is one of the most stupendous facts of all time. When our God forgives us, He promises that He will not remember our sins against us anymore! That is wonderful!

Yes, I recognize that is what Isaiah and Jeremiah say. But I've always had a problem with such statements. How can God, who knows all things past, present, and future ever forget anything? How can He forget our sins?

He doesn't.

But doesn't it say that He won't remember our sins?

Yes, it does, but that's not the same thing as forgetting them. Obviously, the omniscient God who created and sustains the universe does not forget, but He can not remember. You see, forgetting is passive and is something that we human beings, not being omniscient, do. Not remembering is active; it is a promise whereby one person (in this case, God) determines not to remember the sins of another against him. To not remember is simply a graphic way of saying, I will not bring up these matters to you or others in the future. I will bury them and not exhume the bones to beat you over the head with them. I will never use these sins against you.

So now I see the difference! You have answered a perplexing problem that I have never been able to resolve before. I am certainly glad to have a clear, satisfying explanation of that matter at last. Perhaps there is more to forgiveness than at first meets the eye. Probably I have a lot more to learn than I realized.

From From Forgiven to Forgiving by Jay E. Adams, Calvary Press, Amityville, NY 11701 website: Calvary Press Publishing and Discount Book Service.

Here is a position paper on the subject from Dennis Gundersen's Church that I know about. He also owns Grace and Truth books.

http://www.grace4u.org/Topical/Chris...iveness_DH.htm

http://www.graceandtruthbooks.com/

WaywardNowHome · #4 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 05:40 PM

Wow. Thanks Martin! Jay's thoughts on the matter have really made me re-consider my own ideas regarding forgiveness.

lynnie · #5 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 06:05 PM

We have had that happen.

I had to instantly forgive, but we also told the person that if they did not seek counsel and accountability we would consider them as unrepentant and we would go to the pastor( or somebody else) about it. Once we forgave a missionary who committed adultery, but insisted he tell his wife immediately and his higher ups (which he did, and he resigned and took a secular job).

Another time it was bad p0rn. Repentance required admitting it to the guys at a small group and getting some biblical counseling. (it had a marvelously happy ending).

To not remember is simply a graphic way of saying, I will not bring up these matters to you or others in the future. Well, maybe. What if they tell you a sin that you know can hurt the family eventually ( cocaine), and they don't seek serious help, should you just forgive and say nothing?

There was a stinking mess on the blogs about a denomination I won't name where a boy molested a girl and the parents and small group were urged to forgive. Uh huh. So they all had to forgive and not say anything. Then he goes and rapes a three year old girl. So we are supposed to just forgive a pedophile and say nothing? I doubt it. You don't "forgive and forget" when it means you fail to protect children.

I had two people in my current church apologize to me about things they said, and I was so happy to forgive and everything be fine. When people really are sorry, you are glad to forgive. If you are having such a hard time, it may be that you can tell they are not really sorry. You still have to forgive, but it doesn't mean you can't go to them and say "I don't think you have repented, would you be willing to talk to the pastor/counseling person/elder with me about this?" Can't hurt to try. Maybe the pastor will say the problem is you, but maybe he'll say it is them...or a combination. (If people's sin is a repeat of things in your past you can overreact. I can handle somebody practically lobbing a nuclear bomb at me, but certain things that to my husband would be insignificant just pull my triggers).

Just my opinion. I am still thinking this through. But if kids are involved, you may need to say something.

Curt · #6 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 06:15 PM

Been there, friend. As a pastor, it is often the congregation that dispenses the big hurts. Forgiveness is not easy (especially for me), but it is required - or we cannot move on.

I'm praying for you.

PCFLANAGAN · #7 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 08:04 PM

On this topic I turn back to the Lord's prayer. In our prayers that follow that model we request forgiveness of sins as we forgive those who sin against us. With that in mind, we should be motivated to treat our fellow sinner with maximal clemency, just as we wish to receive full and complete forgiveness from God.

Pink, discussing this portion of the Lord's prayer wrote:

Our Lord teaches us to confirm this petition with an argument: as we forgive our debtors." First, Christ teaches us to argue from a like disposition in ourselves: whatever good there be in us must first be in God, for He is the sum of all excellency; if, then, a kindly disposition has been planted in our hearts by His Holy Spirit, the same must be found in Him. Second, we are to reason with God from the lesser to the greater: if we, who have but a drop of mercy, can forgive the offenses done to us, surely God, who is a veritable Ocean of mercy, will forgive us. Third, we are to argue from the condition of those who may expect pardon: we are sinners who, out of a sense of God’s mercy to us, are disposed to show mercy to others; hence, we are morally qualified for more mercy, seeing that we have not abused the mercy we have already received. They who would rightly pray to God for pardon must pardon those who wrong them. Joseph (Gen. 50:14-21) and Stephen (Acts 7:60) are conspicuous examples. We need to pray much for God to remove all bitterness and malice from our hearts against those who wrong us. But to forgive our debtors does not exclude our rebuking them, and, where public interests are involved, having them prosecuted. It would be my duty to hand over a burglar to a policeman, or to go to law against one who was able but who refused to pay me (Rom. 13:1-8). If a fellow citizen is guilty of a crime and I do not report it, then I become an accessory to that crime. I thus betray a lack of love for him and for society (Lev. 19:17, 18).

BJClark · #8 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 08:37 PM

The verses that come to my mind in regards to forgiveness are Matthew 6:14-15 the two verses right after the Lords Prayer..

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

God forgives us a Multitude of sins, who are we not to forgive when others sin against us? Even if they never come to know God, that may be the only forgiveness they ever know..where they are shown God's grace in such a way

And then I always consider how many people have I sinned against, even unknowingly? would I want them to harbor that un-forgiveness towards me?

Or would I want God not to forgive me the sins I have committed against Him? My sin's towards God and others are just as vile, as sins committed against me.

WaywardNowHome · #9 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 08:44 PM

Question on my mind: Is repentance a prerequisite for forgiveness? Surely repentance (and belief) is a requirement for God's forgiveness of our sins, yes? Does that apply to man-man forgiveness as well?

Brad · #10 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Mar 11:25 And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

This is something I've been having to figure out. Sounds like there are no prerequisites. Anything includes even the worst offenses, anyone includes the unrepentant unregenerate, does it not?

I know that can't mean we're to expose ourselves or our loved ones to repeated abuses, but what exactly does it mean?

moselle · #11 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 09:50 PM

Thank you - the person has already sought counsel and accountability from an elder and has begun working through what it means to repent. Fortunately, the damage is limited to our own hearts and relationship with each other and God. It is a relationship that simply MUST be healed through the power of the Holy Spirit, and I believe God has been gracious to us in beginning that work already.

BJClark · #12 (**permalink**) 06-18-2009, 10:37 PM

I don't know why people assume forgiving means you MUST trust a person again, even if they are repentant..God tells us not to trust men, but to trust HIM!!

Do I trust someone I know has molested a child to watch my child?? NO!! God has given me wisdom--can I forgive them? certainly, but I don't have to trust them to watch my children when I know that is an area of sin THEY struggle with?

That would be disrespectful to them by placing them in a situation where they may be tempted to sin, and placing a child in harms way, so in such cases I show more love and respect for them by understanding the struggle of their sin..by NOT allowing them to watch my children or other children..which may cause them to stumble.

BJClark · #13 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009, 01:26 AM

Brad;

Quote:

Anything includes even the worst offenses, anyone includes the unrepentant unregenerate, does it not?

Yes it does..

Quote:

I know that can't mean we're to expose ourselves or our loved ones to repeated abuses, but what exactly does it mean?

It means learning to set healthy boundaries on what you will accept and what you won't; its a matter of knowing which situations you can be around them and which you can't, and then standing firm in those things.

For example: if a person is verbally abusive towards you in private but not in public, then you refrain from meeting with them privately, always meet w/ them in a public setting. If they have no qualms about being abusive in public, then when they start getting abusive you tell them.."If you continue acting this way I'm going to leave." and if they stop wonderful, but the first time they start back up..You get up and walk away. Allow them to suffer the consequences of not being able to fellowship with you and your family.

If they are at your home and they get this way, then you ask them to leave, IF they refuse to leave, you have the recourse of calling the police and allowing them to remove them if necessary. Yes, that may sound mean, but it's not, even if it's a family member--as it's your home and you do not need to accept that treatment in YOUR home. You can even let them know, before they come over, IF they do such such..they will be asked to leave, even letting them know that if they refuse to leave after being asked, you will call the police and have them removed. That way they know before hand what the consequences of such behavior will be, and then they can choose to come over or not..and if they choose to come over then they are forwarded of what is expected of them and what will happen if they refuse to comply with those expectations.

Much like if you know a person is a drunkard then you only agree to meet with them when they are sober..if they are addicted to drugs, you only meet with them when they are clean.

People seem to think boundaries are like walls that keep everyone out, when they are really like fences with a gate, that allow certain people in while keeping others out.

I'd really recommend the book Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud

Denver Seminary > Articles > Boundaries

**BobVigneault** · #14 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009, 08:00 AM

One thing we often miss when we discuss forgiving somebody is the fact that forgiveness costs something.

Let's say you owe me $50 and you just can't pay it. I can take you to small claims court and have the law force you to pay or I can forgive your debt. If I forgive your debt, guess what, it cost me $50 dollars. It wasn't just an emotional or mental gymnastic, it was a deliberate act of accounting and there was a cost to the one forgiving.

If I hurt you in some way and then ask you to forgive me, what happens to that hurt? Either you absorb it or you refuse, deciding that I should be the one who gets hurt. If I ask you to forgive me $10,000 dollars maybe you cannot afford it and you would have no choice but to take me to court. Your emotional hurt might be too large as well. (Please understand that I'm speaking in practical terms.) Perhaps you can't afford to forgive me right now.

The Bible tells us that we are obligated to forgive because God forgives us first. Christ absorbed the wrath of God for the sins that cause all the hurts; Christ covered the cost, but don't hate yourself if you can't forgive someone readily. That hurt may be more than you can absorb right now. You will meditate on the promises of God and you will take your hurt to the cross and eventually you will be able to forgive. Forgiveness is a means of being made free and resting on God's promises but it is also a function of our sanctification and it may take time.

Scott1 · #15 (**permalink**) 06-19-2009, 08:15 AM

Forgiveness, and repentance are beautiful things.

They are evidence that God is truly working in the life of someone.

Repentance involves confessing wrong, by God's grace, forsaking it going forward, and by God's grace making restitution/reconciliation as much as it is within that person's power.

Once a person has repented, they are forgiven in God's sight and can be free of it, really.

We should readily receive repentance, even while it is in process, presume the best, particularly for those in the household of faith. In many cases it is more, sometimes much more, than admitting wrong. It requires suffering to make it right. God blesses and helps those who seek to do that, particularly to honor and glorify Him.