At a small group meeting, the wife of a football coach prayed that her husband's team would win the game the next weekend, after they had had a string of losses.

One Sunday morning over breakfast, emeritus pastor's wife prayed, "And please remind the mothers to dress their children sensibly this morning. You know, it's getting cold now, as autumn approaches and some of those young mothers just don't know any better." It was all I could do to keep a straight face.

My initial inner reaction in the first case was, "How stupid! Is the Almighty your cosmic bellboy? Where is your value system anyway--the kingdom of God or the kingdom of your football team?"

On second thought, perhaps the prayers were legitimate. Isn't our Father delighted that we pour out our hearts to Him? Probably most of our prayers reflect sinful attitudes and an inadequate understanding of God. However, He commands us to pray in spite of that.

How about you pastoral sorts? Would you see fit to correct the faulty assumptions behind obviously-stupid prayers in your own families or in your parishioners?

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Mary Vanderkooi
Kale Heywott Church (KHC)
Soddo, Ethiopia

From the many petitions/examples in the Lord's Prayer we see what God would have us pray; what is His will for us in our prayers. As John says "Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us." (1 John 5:14)

In the first case, such a request seems to transgress the boundaries of prayer and is about personal glory and fame. One must ask: what does God's revealed will have to do with winning a game? Is there any example in the Bible that shows us that such requests are honoring to our God? Hardly.

In the latter case, the need or interest is certainly legitimate, but this could have been taken care of in the form of a conversation with one another NOT in the form of a conversation of prayer with Almighty God. In fact it sounds more like a petty argument: the young mothers "don't know any better".

It would seem therefore that God's will would have been properly honoured in these prayers if someone would have asked that He be glorified in the following game regardless of the outcome ("hallowed be your name") and that He would provide for the needs of mother and children ("give us this day our daily needs").

Yes it is true as you point out, all of our prayers are imperfect; no one prayer is wholly pure even if all the words are correct. For that we may all be thankful that Christ intercedes on our behalf (Hebrews 7:25) and that the Spirit is helping us in our weaknesses (Romans 8:26). But that does not excuse us for praying the wrong things when our Lord has taken care to instruct us as to the proper content of our petitions.

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Rev. Daniel Kok
Pastor of Grace Reformed Church (URCNA)
Leduc, Alberta CANADA
Church Blog

"there is no creature, either in heaven or on earth, who loves us more than Jesus Christ"
Belgic Confession, Article 26

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I don't know I always thought stupid prayers where things like "dear God please help me get the wining lottery" numbers or "I really need a new Cadillac because the neighbors got one." Stuff like that does God answer them yes but dont be supried if His answer is No.

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Aaron
Independent Baptist
Holland MI
Blog: earthdwell22.blogspot.com

I really think that they are not Ok, we are under pressure to agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and view, different strokes for different folks, and that is just plain wrong.

The key is that our own view may be wrong and we should alwas proceed from that basis, we should be as open to challenge as we are to challenge others.

We should pray that we know the will of God and that this will be done, that we can accept this will and for things within the revealed preceptive will of God.

I would hope that elders would speak privately to those who pray inapropriatly, and that if anyone has a problem with others public prayer that after an initial private approach they too would speak to an elder.

My own pet dislike is when someone explains something to the congregation in prayer, you are meant to be speaaking to God not using the opportunity to speak to other people.

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Mike
London City Presbyterian Church
London
England

"Surely, we wish to be orthodox, but we must first learn what real orthodoxy is. Surely, we wish to be progressive, but we must first have a basis to progress from."

Just a note that I agree with what has been said about the content of our prayer requests and find it hard to appreciate a prayer that 'our team will win the football game'. Even with children I think it would be good to teach them that we are to pray for God's glory, and though nothing is too small a matter in which to try to glorify Him and ask Him for grace to do that, it is His glory and not the game winning that counts.

It seems the issue taken with the second prayer is either that the lady was saying what she did for the benefit of the congregation or that it was information God didn't need, since the content of praying for mothers to be aware of their childrens' needs doesn't seem necessarily unworthy. I think the judgment of charity should be (unless there's some sort of pattern) that the lady is not trying to instruct others but simply is in the habit of speaking this way. As for informing God -- doesn't He know our need of daily bread? Yet we are to ask. I think the danger to guard against is to think that we influence Him by giving more information; but again, the lady may not be making that kind of 'vain repetition', but simply speaking to God in a way that is natural to her? (It would make me smile, too; but if her motivations aren't petty I don't know that it manifests anything more than a rather endearing personal habit of thought/speech?)

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Heidi
Indianapolis, Indiana

After two days, he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him.
Let us know; let us press on to know the LORD; his going out is sure as the dawn; he will come to us as the showers, as the spring rains that water the earth.

(Just to throw out a further scenario which may not redound at all to my credit - and I won't be offended if someone wants to tell me so: Ruben and I had been apart for three weeks and he was returning to the states; we had very little money I wanted something nice to celebrate his return. I happened through a series of blunders with the grocery shopping to be in the car when they announced on the radio that a certain caller would win free tickets to a performance of Beethoven's ninth. I knew that we weren't supposed to pray to win but I did in a moment of haste blurt out from my very soul to God a desire that I might win the tickets -- Ruben loves Beethoven's ninth. I called, it rang and rang, I thought surely I had lost but was hanging on for someone to tell me so and it turned out that I had won. I knew it was a good gift from God, regardless of the legitimacy of my asking. Sometimes I am not so sure that it is wrong to submit even the petty desires of our hearts to God, so long as we are submitting them not just trying to exert our will over His. And how good He is that often His glory is manifested in blessing us in such seemingly irrelevant ways.)

Is there also not a difference between private and public payer. Our desires have no neutral ground, anything we want we should be happy to pray for, if not then we should not want it.

For public prayer should we not be praying for the Church and others more than our own desires? I have not thought this through fully but should not edification be an element of public prayer?

That is extremely helpful. Thank you.

I laughed at the prayer about having the moms dress their kids sensibly. I can't think why it is wrong to pray that. The "bell-boy" part may be correct because God may gently tell the woman to address the issue with love to the younger moms herself. We had a ladies conference this weekend and the pastor who was asked to head up the conference is in the pulpit for the whole congregation today. He took the Titus 2 passage about, essentially, older ladies teaching the younger ones in practical ways. God tells the older ladies to teach the younger ones how to dress their kids, keep the husband happy (blessed), keep a good home, etc.

So, I think God has laid a good burden on this skittish older mom's heart that the younger moms have a lot of work ahead of them in raising "sensibly dressed" children for the up-coming autumn months

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Bryan Wiley
Layman
Reformed Baptist Church
Louisville, Kentucky

"Seek the Kingdom of God first."

Posted via Mobile Device

Stupid prayers are OK. "Preaching," re-capping sermon points, and using the pastoral prayer for announcements . . . NOT OK.

I've read some of you people saying that this isn't a legitimate prayer. Perhaps it wasn't. But then again, perhaps it was. Coaches - especially paid coaches - are under a LOT of pressure to win. To lose consistently is to lose your job. You people pray about the success of your jobs all the time. How arrogant to say that he shouldn't pray about his. His wife could also be praying this because he (the coach) is feeling bummed or discouraged about this... she could be hoping for her husband to be encouraged.

If this was a athlete praying for victory, or a good performance, or whatever... that isn't necessarily vain either. Perhaps he is being scouted and his performance will dictate whether or not he gets a good scholarship or drafted? Either way, this boils down in principle to the same type of prayer that you people pray in regards to success in your chosen field of endeavor.

That could be from a legitimate concern, but it comes across like a back-door sermon. Public service announcements shouldn't be made during prayers.

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Ben
Sanford, NC
TE Ohio Valley Presbytery, PCA

Those are good points. I think we're used to hearing prayer (or praying) for victory more on the grounds of simply wanting to beat the other team and get sports glory, thus probably, the reactions.

I also wanted to add that sometimes there is a difference in the way women and men pray, which reflects the difference in their sphere of cares etc. (I read an article once, can't remember where, by a man who was somewhat frustrated by his wife's lack of spirituality: he was always praying for the kingdom and she was always praying for somebody's cold. He finally realized that they were praying for the same thing, and could probably both use a dose of the other's emphasis.) The prayer about the mothers with their children is very much in the sphere of woman's cares.

Prayer is the soul's desire,
uttered or unexpressed:
The motion of a hidden fire
That trembles in the breast.

Prayer is a burden of a sigh,
The falling of a tear,
The upward glancing of an eye
When none but God is near.

Prayer is the simplest form of speech
That infant lips can try:
Prayer the sublimest strains that reach
The Majesty on High.


(Alexander Whyte)

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Robert Brown
Emmanuel OPC
Kent Washington

Augustine. ' Animam meam in odia haberem'
(Translated) I would hate my own soul if I did not find it loving God

I have noticed that many men pray short memorized prayers for blessings of meals. Some of these I have heard for years. What does everyone think of these? (I hope this is not off topic)

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John Blevins III
Chalcedon Presbyterian Church
RPCUS
Seminary Student
Gainesville, Georgia

Stupid prayers? Hmmmmm. From God's perspective, what prayer have you prayed that was not hopelessly inept and immature from the standpoint of eternity and absolute sovereignty?

I do not believe that stupid prayers are the unforgiveable sin . . . unless you pray for Al Franken to win his Senate contest.

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Just what I was thinking, but you say it so much better. I can't think of any of my prayers that aren't stupid from God's perspective.

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Brad
PCA Member
Virginia

Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

"Prayer is the Christian's vital breath,
the Christian's native air:
his watchword at the gates of death:
he enters heaven with prayer."

-- C. H. Spurgeon

Nothing stupid about that! Praise God for the priviledge of bringing our needs and desires before Him. He invites to come boldly to the throne of grace and find grace to help in our time of need.

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Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

Mr. Blevins,

I know exactly what you mean. I believe that it is a disgrace to our Heavenly Father for such prayers to be uttered mindlessly and without any thought behind them. Prayer must be done out of faith in God, not a mindless uttering of a few magical words to have a meal blessed.

In another regard, something that bothers me is when fathers allow their children to repeat a "cutesy" prayer over and over again for the family dinner. I have heard this happen many times - the child doesn't understand what they are saying and they rush through the words to be able to get to the food. This is not prayer! True thanksgiving to God has not been given in such an instance.

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Bradley Conway
Gainesville, GA
Member of Chalcedon Presbyterian Church (RPCUS)
Under care of Covenant Presbytery as a candidate for the gospel ministry

"You may as well quit reading and hearing the Word of God, and give it to the devil, if you do not desire to live according to it."
- Martin Luther

If we read Scripture, we "know and learn" how to pray, HOWEVER, I am reluctant to call any prayer stupid in that I cannot fully see the heart of the person making the Prayer. God answers Prayers in terms of , Yes, Not Yet, I will answer, but NOT in the way you asked or expect. Just my...

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~etexas~