So When Did You Become a Calvinist?

Abd_Yesua_alMasih · #1 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 06:03 AM

I thought this would be a good topic and may encourage anyone looking at this board etc... and will even encourage anyone here having doubts. If there is a topic like this already then someone can delete this I suppose.

The Question: When did you become a Calvinist? How did this happen? Where you an unbeliever before, an Arminian or maybe something else. Basically I want a short encouraging story about how God changed you and brought you onto the path of propper doctrine.

Yes I do realise 'testamony time' is not a reformed concept but be assured this is outside of the church and is simply sharing of testamonies for the edification of those reading and is not subtracting from communal worship.

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

***Joshua*** · #2 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 06:50 AM

About 5 yrs ago.

govols · #3 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 08:03 AM

About 3 years ago.

jfschultz · #4 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 08:14 AM

Oh that goes way way back, before the foundation of the world. I just didn't know it until...

**Me Died Blue** · #5 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 08:26 AM

Good one, John!

For me it was around Fall 2002.

JonathanHunt · #6 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 08:34 AM

I was a calvinist from conception.

In UTERO!

I might be in a minority...

Born a calvinist...
Raised a calvinist
Saved a calvinist

Calvin till I die
I'm Calvin till I die
I know I am
I'm sure I am
I'm Calvin till I die...

To the tune of H-A-P-P-Y

Note for all: Take pinch of salt with post.

:bigsmile:

JH

ReformedWretch · #7 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 08:44 AM

Officially about 8-12 months ago.

I say officially because I ALWAYS knew there was something wrong with Arminianism, I just couldn't get a grip on what it was.

THis place helped me greatly.

Puritan Sailor · #8 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 08:47 AM

Here's an older thread of testimonies too.

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/vi...=1427#pid14857

VirginiaHuguenot · #9 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 08:57 AM

For me, it was in 1991 that I began to understand the doctrines of grace. I had been born again in 1989 (previously I was raised Roman Catholic, although my father is an atheist and teaches evolution as a college professor, and converted to the Baha'i Faith in college but joined IVCF and Campus Crusade for Christ and converted to Christianity after reading C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity), and worked (during college) as a sexton in an independent Bible Church. It had a library which I perused after hours that contained a copy of Calvin's Institutes.

Moreover, providentially, during college I had an English lit assignment on the writings of Milton that challenged me to explore predestination. I also had to write on T.S. Eliot and therefore explored his religious views.

Also, I was coming to a political stance that was very close to that held by the Scottish Covenanters, although I didn't know it at the time.

Around this time, I became reacquainted with a cousin of mine who was a Reformed Presbyterian, ie., RPCNA (he grew up an unbeliever like me). He was living in the Boston area so we tried to get together when I went up to Gordon-Conwell to see if I wanted to apply to that seminary. It didn't work out, but then he moved south and lived close enough to invite me to a PCA church in Durham, North Carolina that held to the Regulative Principle of Worship and Exclusive Psalmody. My cousin talked to me about these issues, told me about the Scottish Covenanters, and Reformed Presbyterianism.

All of these events came together providentially to prepare to accept the Reformed Faith, although it seemed to me like a second conversion compared to my prior Arminian understanding of salvation.

In late 1991, I took a three-week trip through Germany by train alone. I visited the Wartburg Castle where Martin Luther translated the Bible into German. I visited Catholic cathedrals and saw the superstition of European Romanism. I read Calvin's Institutes cover-to-cover on the train. I wrestled with issues like TULIP, the sovereignty of God, predestination/free will and practical applications of Reformed worship such as Sabbath-keeping, man-made holy days, psalm-singing, musical instruments, etc.

By God's grace, the light finally came on, and I began to obey and understand, and to give God the glory rather than man. Ps. 119. Thus, here I am today, Reformed and Reforming, to God be the glory!

This forum is aptly named. Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress was one of the first things I read as a Calvinist and it so beautifully describes the Christian experience. We as Christians all go through the pilgrimage of this life (meant not in the Catholic sense) and it is often only with hindsight that we can see how God's providence truly does work to his glory and our good (Rom. 8.28).

Soli Deo gloria!

Solo Christo!

Sola Scriptura!

Sola Gratia!

Sola Fide!

satz · #10 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
For me, it was in 1991 that I began to understand the doctrines of grace. I had been born again in 1989 (previously I was raised Roman Catholic, although my father is an atheist and teaches evolution as a college professor, and converted to the Baha'i Faith in college but joined IVCF and Campus Crusade for Christ and converted to Christianity after reading C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity), and worked (during college) as a sexton in an independent Bible Church. It had a library which I perused after hours that contained a copy of Calvin's Institutes.

Moreover, providentially, during college I had an English lit assignment on the writings of Milton that challenged me to explore predestination. I also had to write on T.S. Eliot and therefore explored his religious views.

Also, I was coming to a political stance that was very close to that held by the Scottish Covenanters, although I didn't know it at the time.

Around this time, I became reacquainted with a cousin of mine who was a Reformed Presbyterian, ie., RPCNA (he grew up an unbeliever like me). He was living in the Boston area so we tried to get together when I went up to Gordon-Conwell to see if I wanted to apply to that seminary. It didn't work out, but then he moved south and lived close enough to invite me to a PCA church in Durham, North Carolina that held to the Regulative Principle of Worship and Exclusive Psalmody. My cousin talked to me about these issues, told me about the Scottish Covenanters, and Reformed Presbyterianism.

All of these events came together providentially to prepare to accept the Reformed Faith, although it seemed to me like a second conversion compared to my prior Arminian understanding of salvation.

In late 1991, I took a three-week trip through Germany by train alone. I visited the Wartburg Castle where Martin Luther translated the Bible into German. I visited Catholic cathedrals and saw the superstition of European Romanism. I read Calvin's Institutes cover-to-cover on the train. I wrestled with issues like TULIP, the sovereignty of God, predestination/free will and practical applications of Reformed worship such as Sabbath-keeping, man-made holy days, psalm-singing, musical instruments, etc.

By God's grace, the light finally came on, and I began to obey and understand, and to give God the glory rather than man. Ps. 119. Thus, here I am today, Reformed and Reforming, to God be the glory!

This forum is aptly named. Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress was one of the first things I read as a Calvinist and it so beautifully describes the Christian experience. We as Christians all go through the pilgrimage of this life (meant not in the Catholic sense) and it is often only with hindsight that we can see how God's providence truly does work to his glory and our good (Rom. 8.28).

Soli Deo gloria!

Solo Christo!

Sola Scriptura!

Sola Gratia!

Sola Fide!

nice!

some times it really frustrates me to see friends and family who seem in a sense to be serious about God but are trapped in roman catholicism. The images and what not the romans have of Jesus and the saints now really creeps me out...

Rick Larson · #11 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 09:18 AM

Well, after becoming saved about 11 years ago, I would read the Bible and get confused over the issue of whether or not it was possible I could lose my salvation. Everyone I knew held to the "once saved always saved" position, but could not clearly articulate this from Scripture. The first theology book I ever got was "Basic Theology" by Charles Ryrie, and he did a good job of defending Eternal Security, but I still was bothered by how "the whole thing went together". It seemed like what he was saying was true, but there must be more to the story.

Enter in the "Lordship Salvation" controversy. I first took the side of the "No-Lordship" people thanks to a little website hosted by The Grace Evangelical Society". They kept on bringing up this John MacArthur guy, who apparently was their arch nemesis, and I eventually bought the book "The Gospel According to Jesus" just to see what all the fuss was all about. Well, I immediately saw the light (regarding Lordship) while reading MacArthur's book, and proceeded to begin telling my friends at church about this marvelous book and this marvelous MacArthur. The response I got back from the more learned people was "Don't you know MacArthur is a Calvinist?" To which I would reply, "Yes, I know that, he doesn't believe a Christian can lose his salvation"- (At that time the only thing I knew about Calvinists and Arminians was their view about Eternal Security)

Anyway, long story short, I made it my next goal to find out whatever I could about Calvinism, so I went down to the local bookstore and picked up "The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination" by Loraine Boettner. My entire view of Christianity changed while reading that book! That was officially when I became "a Calvinist".

satz · #12 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 09:21 AM

i was raised an arminian but came into contact with calvinistic teaching from several different sources at the same time ( friends, church, internet etc).

i have to confess though, that the arguments that got me to accept election where probably hyper in nature. to an extent i still have to struggle to check myself about that to this day...

LadyFlynt · #13 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 10:25 AM

I don't know, maybe I always was. I remember at about 4yrs old telling my armenianist s-dad that I was NOT to blame for something because God controls everything (you should have seen how red his face got as he stuttered around that one...yes, I was working my way out of trouble), I must have had Calvinistic foster parents!

I was raised by armenianists that believed you could lose and gain salvation, but was in a slightly calvinistic (4 point) once saved always saved church. So my thinking was a bit mixed. Later we while trying to grow as Christians and learn about living a holy life, we got frustrated with the liberalism within the mainstream churches (SBC and UMC and LMS).
So we went off the deep end...first into oneness pentacostalism (which we had asked specific questions before going and found we had been lied to) for about 9mos and then to the mennonites for a year and a half. There the Lord knocked us flat on our faces. Nothing we did was good enough. If we even tried harder than those within the community we were criticized as trying to be better than them (even though the suspenders were just for holding his britches up not for making a statement). If I didn't make dessert everyday, regardless of finances, I wasn't taking care of my family. If dh didn't buy me a Bernina sewing machine ($2000!) then he wasn't taking care of me. We were lonely. Women were not allowed to get together unless it was for shopping, canning, or sewing....no Bible studies allowed outside of the men's observance...the ladies were not allowed to ask questions during sunday school and half the time could not hear what was being said as the man stood on the men's side and only the men could respond...not allowed to have the in laws to come stay a weekend because they were D&R...got into trouble for going to a Sunday home meeting of others that were joining plain groups (this was a time of refreshment and support for most of us). I finally ended up reading all of Job for the first time. I called a friend in tears only to be screamed at that I got what I deserved (I had told her a year previously that I couldn't stand with her wedding party in her 2nd marriage). The final straw was the recommendation that I take Prozac to help me conform (I had started questioning the gossip, etc).
We had some friends (a neighboring holiness ministers son and a couple that had left the mennonite churches themselves-only they were raised mennonite) help us pack and move (literally sneaking out) and move us back to St L. Where we had some friends from a Bible Church take us in...they were hardcore calvinists. The two months with them helped us start recovering and helped us re-evaluate our doctrine and beliefs.

Bang, into calvinism....the next 5yrs helped us to finally agree to that fifth point (limited atonement).

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by LadyFlynt]

[Edited on 9-2-2005 by LadyFlynt]

gwine · #14 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 10:47 AM

Don't have a date but there were two key points in my life. On was reading Jonathan Edwards "Sinners in the Hand of an Angry God." I thought not so good things of it. But as I kept going back to the biggest hindrance to my faith, the bad things religious people do, God revealed the answer - because we are depraved by nature due to the fall.

From there it has been no going back. But I am still learning and have a long ways to go.

**turmeric** · #15 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 12:31 PM

Still becoming a Calvinist!

Ivanhoe · #16 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 12:43 PM

About 3 1/2 years ago. I was coming out of liberalism and saw charismatics openly mocking God with their mishandling of the word. I was determined to refute and expose this error. I was led to the writings of John Macarthur, which led me to the puritans, which led me to C. M. McMahon. After that I was hooked.

ABondSlaveofChristJesus · #17 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 12:46 PM

Almost a year ago and I don't even remember how it happened.

rmb · #18 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 02:21 PM

As I read my Bible I concluded that all the parts that did not seem to connect were due to my lack of knowledge. But as I read more and more Puritan writers. All suggested by bibliographies of the good Calvinist authors I was reading, I realized that I was traveling in the wrong crowd. Most likely we were pooling our ignorance. I looked for and found better teaching and preaching. I am much more satisfied.

BlackCalvinist · #19 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 02:26 PM

It's all THIS GUY'S FAULT: http://home.flash.net/~thinkman/

I was a nice happy, Geisler-like Arminian Apologist till about 98. I had picked up Thomas and Steele's book (first edition) in 95-96 when my now-future-wife was in bible college and had to do a paper on Calvinism. I found myself agreeing with much of the 'Calvinists' viewpoints, with a few exceptions here and there. NEver gave it a thought after that, until I was challenged on the 'T' on my apologetics list by Bill Kilgore in 98.

In fact, much of the process of my 'conversion' is still online somewhere or another. My apologetics list has all of the posts back to 98, and the Internet Archive has old versions of my web pages as I gradually matured in my understanding of the doctrines of grace.

Quote:

http://www.theologicallycorrect.com/...log/72700.html

In my personal studies, I'm undergoing yet another theological paradigm shift. Over the past two years, I've been slowly moving from the Arminian soteriological framework to the Reformed viewpoint. As an Arminian, I found certain scriptures incompatible with supposed 'free-will' (or complete human autonomy, which is what most folks mean by 'free-will'). If God truly is Sovereign,then He does control *everything* - including salvation, as the scriptures clearly dictate (John 6:37,44,65). My current reading material (The Potter's Freedom by James White) is giving me an even deeper view. I've revised my *personal* doctrinal statement of what I believe on my personal page.

The site doctrinal statement has already been leaning toward the reformed camp for over a year now- so I added a few 'final touches' to it today with this update. I am also once again, in the process of an eschatalogical study (study of end times). While my conviction remains that premillennialism (specifically dispensational premillennialism) seems to be the natural outcome of a consistent literal (historical-grammatical) interpretation of scripture, I'm finding (much like John MacArthur did) that much of the 'hardline' distinctions that many dispensationalists made in the past only serve to confuse those outside of the dispensational camp of interpretation. I'm still ticked at most of the covenant community for the way they continue to misrepresent dispensationalists and the system, but the Lord will judge them for their misrepresentations.

Then a few months later:

Quote:

http://www.theologicallycorrect.com/...log/12900.html

3. Theological shift. As many of you who keep regular contact with me know (or have been reading my personal website), my soteriological position (doctrine of salvation) has shifted from moderate Arminian (which is what most believers are today including some of you reading this) two years ago, to four point Calvinist (early last year), to 4.5/4.75 point Calvinist (mid-2000) and eventually to full 5 point Calvinist as of 12/00 this year. I've come to this point not as a result of the commentaries and authors I've read, but because upon examination of scripture, I believe this is what it teaches. I mentioned it in a previous epistle, but looks like I'm 'there' now.

My brain is still settling on everything, so keep me in prayer. Reformed theology tends to turn a lot of folks off because it is hostile to the unregenerate man (and in believers, it is hostile to the remaining bits of unregenerate man still inside). The flesh is religious- it likes hearing a 'man' centered message and what man can do to gain/earn/keep salvation, even some of the same people talk about God being 'in complete control' out the other side of their mouths. In the interests of honoring God and preaching the truth from this site, I cannot do other than bend my will to the Word of God. To this end, I've revised a few dozen things on-site. If I find any of my old articles to be at odds with my current doctrinal stance, I'll be revising them too (if you see anything, let me know).

It was an interesting trip.

James White's The Potter's Freedom and Arthur Custance's The Sovereignty of Grace were heavily influential.

Augusta · #20 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 03:37 PM

Driving down Colby Ave. in my car listening to RC Sproul. I was shocked to hear for the first time about predestination. I was shocked but at the same time I new it was true, it must have been the Holy Spirit testifing to me inwardly because I did NOT want to believe it was true. I struggled with it for a long time trying half heartedly to disprove it but that knowledge that it was true just wouldn't leave. I went home and read Romans 9 and was re-shocked. Cried myself to sleep several nights. I had been so secure and sure of my faith and knowledge of God up until then. It was the most important thing in my life and now the rug had been pulled out from under me. I had no one to talk to about it because I was deeply involved with an arminian pentacostal church that I had gone to since I was 8yrs old. ALL of my friends and family were arminian and thought I was nuts when I did try to talk about it. So I shut up for about 8 yrs only shocking people occasionally when it came up. I couldn't pray right for a while because I didn't know how to pray to God anymore because He wasn't who I thought He was. I didn't know how to approach this Sovereign almighty God. I was humbled and trembling. And it took years to finally see the doctrines of grace as the comfort and blessing that they truly are. It took even longer for my husband and I to come to agreement that we need to leave our church where we were both baptized and married. Than even longer to sift through which reformed church to go to we were both completely ignorant of any other denoms than our own. Now we are so happy!!! We love our church we are spiritually fed every Sunday and so blessed.

hhtuck · #21 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 04:58 PM

... I just didn't know it.

About a year after my conversion, I watched a video of John Piper from OneDay 2000. I thought he was pretty awesome, so I got his book, Desiring God.

Next I picked up The Pleasures of God. It had a chapter about Election/Predestination. It made sense to me. I had often wondered at the mystery of where the line was drawn between my actions and God's actions.

I had been told by one of my spiritual mentors that I should be careful (for my own sake as a new-believer) about who I talk about such things with, because some people get way bent out of shape about it. I didn't really believe him. After all, didn't the Sctiptures clearly teach that God was sovereign over everything that came to be?

Now I know that some people really don't care what the Scriptures say on the subject. They have their own precious, self-deluded, imaginary, God-belittleing, gratitude-destroying autonomy to protect.

Ranger · #22 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 06:43 PM

About 8 or so year ago in high school. I'm one of those guys who read Desiring God by Piper and got mad about his take on things. That led me into some intense biblical study, and a conversion to Calvinism.

Abd_Yesua_alMasih · #23 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by houseparent
Officially about 8-12 months ago.

I say officially because I ALWAYS knew there was something wrong with Arminianism, I just couldn't get a grip on what it was.

THis place helped me greatly.

I relate to that. I was always interested in going deeper and thinking about things. From the first start of my Christian walk I struggled with what I saw the Bible saying and what I say the local arminian church's saing. I just never knew there was an alternative. About ten months ago I began to be battered about by Catholic and Muslim apologists who thrashed out my beliefs and inside me I knew there were errors in my thinking. By Gods grace I did not fall for their doctrines though and one day I was in a really bad mood and discontent with what was going on. I searched 'puritan' on the Internet to laugh at them as I had been taught all sorts of crazy things about these early Protestants. I soon found myself on www.apuritansmind.com. I began to read and I saw the scriptures explained in a way I had never heard of before. Over a two months period God softened my heart and showed me the truth. I still struggle with some doctrines but the big thing for me was reading the entire New Testament one weekend and suddenly realising that everything (well almost everything :P) made sense. There was not a verse that seemed silly in the context of Calvinism and everything could be explained rationally.

I have found one of the biggest barriers for modern Christians is plain ignorance. As soon as I began to explain to my friends what had happened I got people interested. My cousin was the first to join the banner of Christ under the doctrines of grace and I even managed to do a study on it at Cell Group one night which got the leader and a few others interested and I will come with me to the local reformed church once we are all back in the same city.

Larry Hughes · #24 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 10:36 PM

I came to know sovereign grace in reality first. I know everybody does in truth, but my own conversion was nothing less than that. It started in 1991, not my conversion, but the journey. It was during my first career job fresh out of college. I disbelieved the existance of God and was an evolutionist for years. In reality I was at great war with God not only denying Him but suppressing Him with all my might. The events that were sovereign in my life still stun me today. Ironic that I've struggled with assurance.

I had packed my meager belongings Sunday morning from my parents house to head to the city where I would live and work. Back then, fresh out of college I could pretty much pack up everything I owned in a suite case and clothes basket. Get this for 'no reason whatsoever' I packed an old King James Bible that we had received as a gift when I was I child after the 74 tornados hit & destroyed our home. Me, an atheist, packed a bible.

I arrived at my new place. The Gulf war was going on. Then the first event hit that night. I recall this exceedingly overwhelming since of foresaken emptiness hitting me. It drove me to crying and weeping. I know many here don't know me but especially back then I was exceedingly calloused toward such things. Crying would have been a sign of weakness to me. I don't cry easily at all. But here I was broken and I couldn't figure out why? I thought I was loosing my ever loving mind, "what was wrong with me I would cry out". I cannot express enough the lostness I felt and utter abandonement. It was like a great dark falling vacuum on my soul, I suppose what hell might in part be like. Back then though why I was experiencing this I did not know? I picked up that old bible and read something from it (I don't recall what, I think in Genesis). It made absolutely no since to me at all. I cried out, "God if you are real, if you are there, I don't know you, I do not know you, are you real..." Then I beat my bible on my head weaping and saying, "I know the truth is in here but I just cannot find it!"

Finally, from exhaustion I fell asleep. I'll never forget that night. Keep in mind I'm still an "atheist". I started work the very next day. They hired two of us to work at the Lab. Another guy named Jamie. We were both waiting out in the lobby filling out our paper work and he introduced himself to me, "Hello, I'm Jamie P. and I'm a christian." Back then I was clueless to what was going on but I look back on that and think, "and they doubt His sovereignty". I don't know if you get the force of that but looking back as I write this it brings tears to my eyes. You have no idea how far from God I was back then, an absolute hater of God. Be very thankful if you were raised and marked into the church from childhood, be very thankful!!!

Fast forwarding a bit. For three years Jamie befriended me and discussed many things with me. He wasn't callouse or 'in my face'. He was patient and not pushy. And he didn't throw a track in my face. He answered what he could and many times he couldn't answer my questions. Though I still fought, I began to wonder, "Is there a God?" I recall a specific bible study he had invited me to with his pastor. I knew in part they were "witnessing to me", I thought myself pretty sly and impervious non-the-less. Plus, Jamie was my friend so I trusted him none-the-less. That night was another turning point. As they 'witnessed to me' I sat and listened. And I remember this one scripture that his pastor quoted to me. As an atheist at that point I viewed all religions and denominations as but numerous sub-religions under the heading of "religion". That's sort of the atheist mind-set, religions are over here in a pile called religions and us unbelievers/irreligious are over here in a pile. Thus, the ideas of baptist, methodist, presbyterian, etc... were merely 3+ religions to me, all trying to get us to join each one. That is key because as an atheist/agnostic back then this was 'proof' to one that no religion is true and also a defense mechanism because one merely thinks that all these religions are merely trying to get you to join their religion. Ironically, true atheist/agnostics are not relativist most of the time. I had not conveyed that to them, but that was in my thinking. His pastor said, "You don't have to join our church..." and the scripture he quoted and showed me Psalm 118:8, "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man." It hit like a bolt of lightening. "They are not trying to get me to join 'their' religion, they are trying to communicate something to me above and beyond this mere earthly manifestation of Christianity...they are trying to get me to see the truth." That was my first picture of the earthly church Vs. the spiritual church. Though, I was still uncoverted. That ironically drives my view of the church here Vs. the church in the spiritual sense. That's why I don't believe in a regenerate church on earth. And this goes way back to my pre-conversion days and very powerfully from Scripture alone. For I had no presuppositions.

Fast forwarding some more. Jamie eventually left the company and I began to see the reality of God and actually believe that there was a God. At this point it was still an unregenerate view of God though. And I still supressed the truth of His holiness because of my sin and desire to stay in it. Thus, I would not join the church at all and openly continued to deny God or say, "maybe there's a God but...."

1997 was the year, June if I recall. I had moved back home because our firm had sold out and I had a new job closer to home in Louisville, KY (about 50 miles from my home town). I had been somewhat 'going to church at my mom's church but still never would join, be baptized or profess Christ.

At that point I knew all the information. Christ was God the Son, died on the cross, etc... But none of that information would convert me. One morning driving to work very early, 5:00 am, I turned on my radio looking for some tunes. Nothing was on. I flicked over to an AM station and came across this old preacher preaching. I almost turned him off because he didn't appeal to me at all. He was not one of these blubbering preachers but he sounded old and boring to me. I will never forget that morning. I've never to this date heard Christ so placarded before. I saw Him (not literally in my mind's imagination but in the Word). For the first time I saw Him. The Gospel is rarely purely preached today, very rarely, but when it is you always remember all of its sweetness. It is a shame that too many confuse the sweet gospel and obscure it.

He was preaching through Christ at Gethsemene, and I became more and more entranced by it. To this point in my life I could not figure out the value of Christ's death. It seemed pointless to me even if He did die for sins. I thought, "How does that appease God, surely He knew He'd rise again and what is a physical death to God. Furthermore, two thieves died that same day. Many men die horrible deaths for good causes." It perplexed me, I couldn't see it. The sacrifice of Christ almost seemed pagan to me. But as that preacher spoke of Christ praying sweating great drops of blood, I yelled at my radio, "Why, what would scare God the Son, why surely He knows He will rise...what is it." He continued that Christ Who knew no sin would bear sin and would at the cross 'drink down every last dreg of the undiluted cup of the wrath of God' (I'll never forget that phrase) where at the cross He would cry out, "MY God, My God why hast thou forsaken me." Then it happend, I 'saw' Christ crucified for real. It literally was like coming up out of a pool of water gasping for life giving air. It was like coming into a reality you formerly never knew in the least and I saw myself. It was like coming to life as much as one might imagine such. I began weeping and crying, I could hardly drive, I cried out, "God, I've denied you all my life for my own selfish gain and sin." I saw the value of Christ's bearing wrath and my wrath due me and it utterly broke me. It was irresistable.

I say it was irresistable not only because it broke me but pulled me through a moment of Spiritual warfare that occurred during that same time. Spiritual warfare was all over me at that time for I felt my self say (or I think it was myself), "You don't want to join the church now, do it later. You need more proof." I felt myself on the precipice of heaven and hell. Saved or forever lost. Snapping to my senses I remember thinking, "If you deny God now you are lost forever and nothing more can save you, you fool for there is no more proof...what proof could be greater than this...what is greater than this Christ crucified for me." I realize that the elect cannot be lost, but I also wonder if that was not a taste of the true unforgiveable sin. I cried out to Him asking forgiveness for all my vile worthlessness and said I will be baptized. I saw such mercy.

For the first time I actually feared my own self. I was afraid I would loose it and not carry it through. I suppose Romans 7 had set in, but I didn't know that back then.

That night, sheepishly, I went to the only person I trusted at that point my mother (a 32 year old mind you) and said to her in the kitchen at the dinner table, "Mom, I think I need to be baptized." Her jaw hit the floor, she didn't know what to do and called the pastor and one of the deacons who visited with me over the next few days. Once they got involved I prayed the 'sinners prayer' at least three seperate times with them. I followed along not knowing any better. I look back on those and shake my head because those items were so utterly distractive and Christ obscuring. And that was my conversion.

I could fill a page attempting to describe what I 'saw' in Christ's crucifixion and bearing of wrath. I don't think I could gather the words to make it real for another, actually I know I couldn't.

Actual formal formulation of what we call "calvinism" came about three years later when I was seeking the answer to "the innocent native" question. But due to my conversion I pretty much accepted the five points right away. It experimentally made perfect sense to me. I was actually shocked to find out later that many Christians hated it. I was genuinely shocked like a child, thinking why...is it not wonderful?

Sorry I posted so long.

Blessings,

Larry

As a former atheist/agnostic for about six years

future expatriate · #25 (**permalink**) 02-10-2005, 01:19 AM

Ummmm...mid-Junior year in high school. I was getting fed up with spoon-fed lessons to the Baptist youth group that I was a part of, and so I started reading. Romans 8 did it for me (yes, a pre-Romans 9 Calvinist conversion!), though I didn't really know any kind of systematics until about six months after that. For a while I guess that I was just predestinarian.

Ex Nihilo · #26 (**permalink**) 02-10-2005, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by future expatriate
Ummmm...mid-Junior year in high school. I was getting fed up with spoon-fed lessons to the Baptist youth group that I was a part of, and so I started reading. Romans 8 did it for me (yes, a pre-Romans 9 Calvinist conversion!), though I didn't really know any kind of systematics until about six months after that. For a while I guess that I was just predestinarian.

Romans 8 did it for me, too! Romans 9 is just the nail in the Arminian coffin.