Should Christians ever be involved in competitive fighting, whether under auspices of martial arts or boxing matches?

I have Christian friends that have been in boxing and tough-man competitions. I have taken Brazillian Jujitsu, Muay Thai Kickboxing, and Karate in time's past, and hope to renew my classes for the exercise benefit, the sport, and to sharpen my knowledge for self-defense purposes. More recently, I did some amateur sparring (i.e., boxing), but nothing in competitive regulated environment.

I was considering practicing for a tough-man type boxing competition next year with my friends. My parents advise against it, citing risk of head injury, and brain damage as a compelling reason to not set foot in a ring. Granted, there would be safety gear and protective head gear utilized. I have taken shots in nose that drew blood in time's past.

So, what think ye? Should this stuff be off-limits? Or is it just good clean fun?

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Ryan
1689 London Baptist Confession

I don't see what's wrong with it. So long as your goal isn't to hurt or mame someone it's simply a sporting competition.

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Adam Leavelle
Westminster OPC
Roaring Spring Pa.

http://www.myspace.com/aleavelle
"Speak wisdom to a fool and he'll think you have no sense at all"

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I agree with Adam.

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Richard H. King
Providence PCA
Lubbock, Texas
You know what my main problem is? I start things but rarely finish anyth...

I've pondered that question myself. I would never be going into it to hurt or mame someone either but the fact is, after getting hit a couple of times would you still be thinking at that moment of it only being a competition or would your attitude become "I'm going to kill that..." ?

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Dan McPherson
Creekside, PA
Faith OPC - Indiana, PA

“The ultimate destiny of every individual is decided by the will of God, and blessed it is that such be the case. If it were left to our wills, the ultimate destination of us all would be the lake of fire.” -- A. W. Pink

lol, sure but that was my attitude after being hit in high school football but I never purposfully tried to hurt someone let alone kill them. I've seen many mixed martial artists stay focused giving high fives between rounds and nearly all of them hug and congratulate one another after their fights.

Sting is awsome!

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Nathan Olaf Brandal
First Baptist Church of Kirkland

"Man is nothing: he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and to do his good pleasure"
GEORGE WHITEFIELD TO JOHN WESLEY

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I don't know how Christians are ever supposed to relate to Paul's analogies of athletes and soldiers if they stay inside and never participate in sports or activities that require one to discipline the body.

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Rich
Northern VA
PCA

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he never went to the WWF to fight the Rock. such a shame.

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~Keon Garraway~ Brooklyn, NY Member of Franklin Square OPC

Love for God demonstrated by the love for our children in giving them a God centered education is the only hope for our country. by David Morrow
Pslam 71:20 [Thou], which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

Now hold on...I was talking UFC/Mixed martial arts. Pro wrestling is another story. As someone who's been a small part of that world, I can say that it's VERY difficult to be a strong Christian there. Pro wrestling is one of the most dirty, seedy, under belly business out there. I got out of it because I felt as a Christian I couldn't remain a part. What you see on TV is not all that I am talking about either, in fact it's very little of what I am talking about.

I would root for the stinger over the rock.

Adam,
WWE today is just as sleazy I only watch when Jeff Hardy is on man he can fly!

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

Larger Catechism 136

Q. What are the sins forbidden in the sixth commandment?

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Gabriel Wetmore
Pastoral Intern, Fairview Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Fountain Inn, SC

I own a fight gym in Orlando....

but I have to admit that there is something ungodly about "fighting" per se.

Boxing, judo, wrestling, jiu jitsu, etc. seem alright, because there's less chance for serious, long-lasting injury (with the exception of brain damage in boxing) or serious pain.

With MMA, however, you are purposely trying to inflict the most painful and serious of injuries on your opponent:

for example, holding the back of the head and pulling the face into a vicious knee strike;
continuous elbowing with all one's might the face of your opponent trapped under you on the ground;
attacking the parts of your opponent's body that are seriously injured or bleeding;

In addition, it just seems awfully unsportsmanlike to kick a downed opponent.
(or beat with a club)

That being said, I am still a big fan of MMA, simply because it is a more real-world fighting experience, unencumbered by rules which would leave you very unprepared in the street.

I can't, however, see the Apostle Paul engaged in this sport. Were he alive today, and had the extra time, I'm certain he would find MMA to be too ungodly to participate in.

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Christopher Hinton
Northland, A Church Distributed;
Altamonte Springs, FL

That was exactly what I was thinking of (except in my case it is the Continental version):

Q105: What does God require in the sixth Commandment?
A105: That I do not revile, hate, insult or kill my neighbor either in thought, word or gesture, much less in deed, whether by myself or by another, but lay aside all desire of revenge; moreover, that I do not harm myself, nor wilfully run into any danger. Wherefore also to restrain murder the magistrate is armed with the sword.

Q107: But is this all that is required: that we do not kill our neighbor?
A107: No, for in condemning envy, hatred, and anger, God requires us to love our neighbor as ourselves, to show patience, peace, meekness, mercy, and kindness towards him, and to prevent his hurt as much as possible; also, to do good even unto our enemies.

For those who support/watch/enjoy/participate in UFC & Pride fighting, how would you answer this criticism?

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Rev. Daniel Kok
Pastor of Grace Reformed Church (URCNA)
Leduc, Alberta CANADA
Church Blog

"there is no creature, either in heaven or on earth, who loves us more than Jesus Christ"
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Let me start by saying that I realize my post will not answer Poimen or G. Wetmore. I'm not trying to deflect their question; just pointing this out:

If you take that to apply to martial arts, or any competition that either intentionally or unintentionally harms someone, then I would hope people on the board would at least be consistent, and also condemn boxing, kickboxing, hockey, football, etc. There might be degrees of difference between all of those, but I've personally seen more injuries watching football than between MMA; and if its a confessional issue, then the degrees are irrelevant, and we need to consistently apply the principle to all sports.

Practically, I find that most Christians don't have a problem with judo, jiu-jitsu, boxing, kickboxing, or Greco-Roman wrestling, taken on their own. However, when you "combine" all of those into MMA, somehow it takes on a life of its own in terms of the condemnation it arouses.

To my knowledge (and someone more knowledgeable can correct me, because I'm not an MMA-head, just someone with a layman's interest), there's only been one death in MMA, and that was in an unsanctioned bout in Russia or somewhere like that.

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Joshua Wiseman
Riverview PCA
Charleston, WV

"Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings."
- Psalm 17:8

Well you did (in part) answer my question Joshua; after all I am seeking for consistency myself. And, just for clarification, I am not condemning UFC/Pride etc. I was just curious as to how people would respond.

I think if we were to view LC136 as banning any/all fighting sports we would have to ban all contact sports of any kind as well.

BTW an interesting question would be to answered would be "How many Divines fenced or carried swords?" After all some of them were "gentlemen" and the practice was still nearly universal at that time.

I think that the key to properly understanding LC136 is to be found in the use of "immoderate".

If I form a decisive opinion on the matter... I don't think it would be at all apt to reject martial arts in a structured class environment, so much as reject competitive boxing matches in which head shots are involved.

I don't believe this would forbid all sports where injury is possible. The problem with ulimate fighting, etc. is that the whole point is to inflict pain and injury. In football, it is not. Yes, it is rough, but they are actually just playing a rough game. If the goal in football was to see who could bloody eachother up fastest, then it would fall into the same category as UFC; but that is not the goal.

In that time, people learned and carried the sword as a way of protection. The divines would not have approved of people resolving personal disputes with the sword; and more importantly neither would Scripture.

What about Parkour?

Ever since I joined this board I knew there was something familiar about you Adam Leavelle, or shall I say "Macho Man" Leavelle! Those sunglasses ensured your anonymity for only a short while, my friend...



Admit it, you love Slim Jims, don'tcha?

(By the way, nice pants! )

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Kevin
Far East
Deacon, Int'l Church

1 Corinthians 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

If all competitive fighting sports were always wrong, would Paul use them as an analogy for the christian life?

I think the distinction between a competition where skills are being tested (ie though a point scoring system or something similar) and one where the object is to beat the opponent till he can't get up is useful.

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Mark
Independent baptist
Singapore