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View Poll Results: Ordinarily, what is required by the Fourth Commandment? | |
Advance preparation, abstain from work, abstain from recreation
|    | 24 | 45.28% | |
Advance preparation, abstain from work but not abstain from recreation
|    | 12 | 22.64% | |
Abstain from work but not not advance preparation or abstaining from recreation
|    | 10 | 18.87% | |
Commandment applies but does not require advance preparation, abstaining from work or recreation
|    | 3 | 5.66% | |
Commandment does not apply to New Testament Believers
|    | 4 | 7.55% |  | 
07-28-2008, 11:29 AM
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| | | Sabbath observation poll
What do Puritan Board members think about applicability of the Fourth Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11, restated Deuteronomy 5:12-15?
Ordinarily, not including emergency or unusual situations involving works of necessity or mercy, what is required by the Fourth Commandment?
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07-28-2008, 11:34 AM
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According to the Westminster Larger Catechism (with which I agree fully)
Question 116: What is required in the fourth commandment?
Answer: The fourth commandment requires of all men the sanctifying or keeping holy to God such set times as he has appointed in his Word, expressly one whole day in seven; which was the seventh from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, and the first day of the week ever since, and so to continue to the end of the world; which is the Christian sabbath, and in the New Testament called the Lord's day.
Question 117: How is the sabbath or the Lord's day to be sanctified?
Answer: The sabbath or Lord's day is to be sanctified by an holy resting all the day, not only from such works as are at all times sinful, but even from such worldly employments and recreations as are on other days lawful; and making it our delight to spend the whole time (except so much of it as is to betaken up in works of necessity and mercy) in the public and private exercises of God's worship: and, to that end, we are to prepare our hearts, and with such foresight, diligence, and moderation, to dispose and seasonably dispatch our worldly business, that we may be the more free and fit for the duties of that day.
Question 119: What are the sins forbidden in the fourth commandment?
Answer: The sins forbidden in the fourth commandment are, all omissions of the duties required, all careless, negligent, and unprofitable performing of them, and being weary of them; all profaning the day by idleness, and doing that which is in itself sinful; and by all needless works, words, and thoughts, about our worldly employments and recreations.
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07-28-2008, 11:46 AM
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| | This is my argument for why the Sabbath continues today.
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07-28-2008, 12:12 PM
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The recreation category still needs to be further defined.
I shun organized sports and activities on Sunday and yet recreation with family is nothing more than family time and being with the ones you love and should not be clumped with Soccer League after church.
I hold out that some recreation is actually rest, such as me and my son chasing lizards and me going for a jog on Sunday.
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Pergamum
"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone
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07-28-2008, 12:19 PM
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| | Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott1 Quote:
Pergamum
Puritanboard Postgraduate
and me going for a job on Sunday.
| I take it you mean "jog."
Blessings | HA! My own conscience convicts me and makes me spell it wrong I guess! It's corrected.
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07-28-2008, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Pergamum The recreation category still needs to be further defined.
I shun organized sports and activities on Sunday and yet recreation with family is nothing more than family time and being with the ones you love and should not be clumped with Soccer League after church.
I hold out that some recreation is actually rest, such as me and my son chasing lizards and me going for a jog on Sunday. |
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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB
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07-28-2008, 01:32 PM
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First option.
To "remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy" is to do so on the other six days. Part of the preparation is making every effort to wise use of the 144 hours the Lord has so generously given us for our own employments and recreations so as to conclude that business by the close of the day prior.
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07-28-2008, 01:36 PM
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*EDIT*
What is meant by advanced preparation?
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07-28-2008, 01:37 PM
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I chose the first choice, although I think the need for preparation in advance needs to take Matthew 12 into account (it's strange that the disciples didn't gather enough food the day before). Also, I think taking a walk on the Sabbath is acceptable while organized sports are not. There's a bunch of recreation in between those that two activities that I'm not sure about.
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07-28-2008, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Davidius Why do the same people say that the Sabbath day has moved to the first day of the week so that we may look back on it, as the Jews looked forward to the coming rest, also say that we need to "prepare" for the Sabbath? It seems to me that it's either something we look forward toward, or something we look backwards toward. Isn't looking forward to it in preparing going back to the function of the Sabbath under the Old Covenant? |
The answer to your question may be related to the way in which Exodus looks (back) at Creation in preface to the Command, whereas Deuteronomy looks at redemption (forward) in preface to the Command. The Sabbath respresents two benefits- creation and redemption.
Also, in the Old Testament times the day before the Sabbath was often called the Preparation Day. They prepared in advance for it so as to not be distracted from observing it by getting done ordinary tasks beforehand. (cf John 19:31, Mark 15:42)
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07-28-2008, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Davidius *EDIT*
What is meant by advanced preparation? | Such as preparing all meals for Sunday on Saturday.
__________________ Ivan Schoen, Pastor * Maranatha Baptist Church, Poplar Grove, IL * http://maranatha-sbc.org/ "I want to assist churches and to assist pastors in training pastors. But, after fourteen years of service in this capacity, I am absolutely certain that the finest theological seminary on earth is absolutely incompetent at replicating the actual life of a Gospel congregation. I want to train a generation of pastors who will train pastors, and I want to help them in that task." --- Dr. R. Albert Mohler, President of THE Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY | 
07-28-2008, 04:57 PM
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Okay, I was wondering whether "preparation" meant necessary tasks or some kind of spiritual meditation/contemplation.
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07-28-2008, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SRoper I chose the first choice, although I think the need for preparation in advance needs to take Matthew 12 into account (it's strange that the disciples didn't gather enough food the day before). Also, I think taking a walk on the Sabbath is acceptable while organized sports are not. There's a bunch of recreation in between those that two activities that I'm not sure about. | I think it is relatively clear from the historical data that the drafters of the Confession were talking about "recreations" such as bear-baiting and other things in the "Book of Sports" published and ramrodded by King James, and not walking, etc.
I would argue by modern application we should not watch NFL games (for example), but may walk with our kids, etc.
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07-28-2008, 05:11 PM
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It all seems like Judaism to me.....Don't hurt me!
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Richard W. Roldan "Ricky"
Member and Teacher of Iglesia Presbiteriana Reformada Berea (PCA)
Winter Haven, FL./ Under Care of the Southwest Presb.(PCA) "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations,...” Jesus " I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel," Paul | 
07-28-2008, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Roldan It all seems like Judaism to me.....Don't hurt me!  | Not meaning to hurt you, but would it "seem like Judaism" to you if a discussion was had with respect to what it means to keep the 5th commandment (i.e. who are my father and mother? what does honor mean?) or the ninth (what does it mean to bear false witness?) ?
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07-28-2008, 05:14 PM
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| | | A Brave Man Quote:
Originally Posted by fredtgreco Quote:
Originally Posted by SRoper I chose the first choice, although I think the need for preparation in advance needs to take Matthew 12 into account (it's strange that the disciples didn't gather enough food the day before). Also, I think taking a walk on the Sabbath is acceptable while organized sports are not. There's a bunch of recreation in between those that two activities that I'm not sure about. | I think it is relatively clear from the historical data that the drafters of the Confession were talking about "recreations" such as bear-baiting and other things in the "Book of Sports" published and ramrodded by King James, and not walking, etc.
I would argue by modern application we should not watch NFL games (for example), but may walk with our kids, etc. | You forgot NASCAR, Golf, & Baseball.
I agree that historically recreation was referring to the "Book of Sports" and other such things. If it forbade all things that might be considered recreation I wouldn't be allowed to memorize my Bible. And such a definition of recreation would ultimately reduce to subjectivism. I think Isaiah 58:13 & 14 are a good rule for what to do on the Sabbath.
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Chris Thomas | SBC-Founders | Fairbanks, AK Q. How many things are necessary for thee to know, that thou, enjoying this comfort, mayest live and die happily?
A. Three, the first, how great my sins and miseries are, the second, how I may be delivered from all my sins and miseries, the third, how I shall express my gratitude to God for such deliverance. Blog: http://johngillisdead.blogspot.com/ | 
07-28-2008, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by fredtgreco Quote:
Originally Posted by Roldan It all seems like Judaism to me.....Don't hurt me!  | Not meaning to hurt you, but would it "seem like Judaism" to you if a discussion was had with respect to what it means to keep the 5th commandment (i.e. who are my father and mother? what does honor mean?) or the ninth (what does it mean to bear false witness?) ? | No
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07-28-2008, 05:19 PM
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I voted "Abstain from work but not not advance preparation or abstaining from recreation."
However, as others have stated "recreation" is a pretty broad term. We'll go for walks or I'll go for a run on a Sunday, but I wouldn't feel okay about organized team sports for instance.
The same goes for "advance preparation." We prepare in advance by doing our shopping on Saturday and making sure that the car is filled with gas etc.. , so that this doesn't need to happen on the Sabbath, but my wife doesn't pre-make meals.
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Eric
Woodgreen Presbyterian (PCA)
Calgary, Alberta CANADA
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07-28-2008, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Roldan Quote:
Originally Posted by fredtgreco Quote:
Originally Posted by Roldan It all seems like Judaism to me.....Don't hurt me!  | Not meaning to hurt you, but would it "seem like Judaism" to you if a discussion was had with respect to what it means to keep the 5th commandment (i.e. who are my father and mother? what does honor mean?) or the ninth (what does it mean to bear false witness?) ? | No | So then your position is that the 4th commandment is not as "good" as the other 9, right? It only is subject to "Judaizing?"
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07-28-2008, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by fredtgreco Quote:
Originally Posted by Roldan Quote:
Originally Posted by fredtgreco
Not meaning to hurt you, but would it "seem like Judaism" to you if a discussion was had with respect to what it means to keep the 5th commandment (i.e. who are my father and mother? what does honor mean?) or the ninth (what does it mean to bear false witness?) ? | No | So then your position is that the 4th commandment is not as "good" as the other 9, right? It only is subject to "Judaizing?" | Not that its not as good but that its shadow is fulfilled in Christ. Why are we even calling it a Sabbath anyways when its the Lord's Day? It wasn't changed from Saturday to Sunday for no reason and why are we puting back a shadow on top of the reality? Do you guys also have a cut off time like at 6pm or something that would only be consistent sabbath law requirements, I just think option #1 goes way to far. I agree with Calvin on this
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07-28-2008, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Roldan Quote:
Originally Posted by fredtgreco  | | | |