I just saw Mr. Warren on the FOX morning news
(he really must have an inside connection here)
and he was advocating a network that would use churches as places for healthcare, education and other solutions to society's ills.

http://www.crossroad.to/charts/mille...oals-peace.htm

This will work about like the UN (doesn't) won't it?

__________________
Richard H. King
Providence PCA
Lubbock, Texas
You know what my main problem is? I start things but rarely finish anyth...

If I were a Dispie, I'd be having some interesting questions about that guy by now!

__________________
The man who is disposed to think of his sin as a great calamity, rather than as a heinous crime, is not likely either to reverence God or to respect His law. - John Kennedy, 1873
Meg
Blog
Member, Intown Presbyterian Church,PCA, Portland, OR

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

R. Murdoch owns Foxnews *and* Zondervan publishing.

__________________
Chris Latch
Corinth MS
Crossroads church - SBC
Evangelism leader

I really don't know a lot about Rick Warren -- have not read his books -- BUT, if the church trusted God to multiply our feeble efforts -- I believe we could accomplish a great deal.

__________________
bwsmith
wife, mother and grandmother!
Severna Park Evangelical Pres. Church (PCA)

I don't have a firm position on church and state separation but I had the opportunity to ask Dr. Tom Nettles here at seminary what he thought about faith-based work where state and church worked together to solve social ills. His answer surprised me as he said the combination of the two throughout church history has apparently always created problems for the church. He says was convinced they should be separate. He told the entire class that.

__________________
Bryan Wiley
Layman
Reformed Baptist Church
Louisville, Kentucky

"Seek the Kingdom of God first."

I agree linking arms with the gov. may well be unsound -- I mean giving that cup of cold water ourselves!

Hasn't the church done those very things for years anyway? Consider how many charities, hospitals, colleges and universities are associated with churches. Christians in England and Great Britain were actively involved in the abolition of both the slave trade and slavery itself. Christians have kept the realities of abortion in the limelight and have provided alternatives for years.

I hate to be cynical - but I'm thinking that maybe Mr. Warren is just looking to sell another book.

__________________
Edie Bowman Posey
Providence Reformed Baptist Church
Toledo, Ohio

"I think that most Christians would be better pleased if the Lord did not inquire into their personal affairs too closely. They want Him to save them, to keep them happy, and to take them off to heaven at last, but not to be too inquisitive about their conduct or services." —A. W. Tozer

The church has done great things --she seems weak now (in the USA) -- we have abortions, for example often as frequently as non-Christians -- therefore a goad to get busy is welcomed.

Are you saying Rick Warren do es not put his money where his mouth is?

The 'we' who has abortions frequently isn't part of the church. That 'we' may be part of a red brick building, but it's not part of the church.

__________________
Asa Julian Myspace Blog
Grace Bible Church

Sometimes, when I see some of the worst characters in the street, I feel as if my heart must burst forth in tears of gratitude that God has never let me act as they have done! I have thought, "If God had left me alone, and had not touched me by His grace, what a great sinner I would have been!" - Charles Spurgeon

That wasn't my intent - at least not totally. I understand that Rick Warren gives a phenomenal amount of his income to charity - particularly AIDS research and treatment. I respect that.

But I also get the impression that the whole "purpose driven" mantra is a business. He can teach the same thing from Scripture instead of encouraging churches to buy his book, attend his seminar, join his groups. I read all the time about "purpose driven" churches - excuse me aren't we Christ driven churches? I've read some things about Saddleback that i find truly depressing - at times there's no way to distinguish them from a "secular" social event.

And again - I think, for the most part, churches in general and Christians specifically have already done many of these things. Christians have been the social conscience of the world for centuries. Again, Christians built the churches, the hospitals, the charities, the schools. They are the ones who go out into the world and find ways to help those in need. What Warren is suggesting (not having seen him on Fox news) doesn't appear to be anything new.

Perhaps what I am reacting to is not what you mean at all – and for that I apologize if I have misread your points. Imho, (many) reformed folk often take great pleasure in our doctrine – yet with little enthusiasm for practical application – but prefer discussing how others fall short.

But I sense some disapproval by asking if we all aren’t Christ-drive churches. Would that we were – and this isn’t new either – So, I gotta say – the spirit may be willing, but the church (remains) in the USA needs renewal as well as reformation – because our infatuation with personal peace and affluence, (what Francis Schaefer warned the church of in the 1960's-70's), weakens our witness – and we face an enemy whose resources are formidable – Islam.

Resting on our (considerable) laurels is an unwise impulse – most all of the universities, like Harvard, Yale, Brown, Vassar, through Howard, established for training missionaries – have been co-opted; so have the major teaching hospitals.

This isn’t new – and the problems we face in USofA and world need workers as much as we need thinkers. I welcome folks who bring fresh ideas –Because I haven’t read his books either – nor do I know that much about Saddleback – nor have I worshiped there – I must ask, are you saying Mr. Warren does not preach the Gospel, or from Scripture? (I am familiar with celebrate recovery – a ministry to hurting people.)

Given that lots of church growth today (USA) is switching denominations, we who do not read his books might consider learning of a “method” and asking God how and what we should be doing.

Oh dear poster -- born-again evangelical women and their partners -- husbands and boyfriends are relying on abortion for birth control, and for solutions to unexpected pregnancies -- it is a literal scandal eve among reformed churches, and my source is a Christian birth center, as well as a statistic from Moody Magazine before its demise in 2002:

Here's a link to something sobering! Theoverall numbers are falling from 1.6 million deaths to 1.3 Million -- but the number of evangelicals who are having abortions is increasing!


http://www.moodymagazine.com/article...article&id=549

Another link with sobering details:
http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/articl..._abortion.html

This seems evident to me, too. For example, the Red Cross can jump in a disaster and make things happen fast for relieving suffering while my church denomination (Reformed Baptists) has a very small impact. They will not join in with less doctrinally sound organizations.

It smacks of Phariseeism and I want no part of that.

Spurgeon says our brothers opinions may be as far apart as the poles but we are still brothers under Jesus and must work together with them, accept them, get molded by them and mold them.

The good news is that many churches in our denomination (PCA) do and have done their part -- given the news from Kansas though, the need goes on. We support World Vision and the Salvation Army who do offer assistance -- my concern is how little I do on the local level!

I can do better, and so can the church -- and I don't mind the reminder from a believer or even unbeliver --

Chris - amen. Well said.

__________________
Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Visit my BLOG Theology for the Rest of Us

With all due respect I have to question the spiritual condition of those who would turn to premeditated murder as means of birth control. Is it possible for a child of God to kill a baby? Possibly. Is it possible for infanticide to become an epidemic in the "true" church? I pray to God that is not the case.

bw - are you familiar with our local crisis pregnancy center in Anne Arundel County? The Bowie-Crisis pregnancy center was able to lease space that had been recently vacated by a baby killing operation (also known as an abortion clinic). How wonderful that a facility that was known for death has a new tenant that stands for life.

Bowie-Crofton-Severna Park Crisis Pregnancy Center

Glad to hear the abortion clinic turned into a PCC. Reminds me of how Voltair's home was converted into a Bible-making facility!

Yes, I am --very familiar. Every day P.P. "operated,” a group of women and men from St. John's Roman Catholic church prayed outside the facility.

Here’s something I wrote about five years ago:

Yesterday, at a local abortion clinic, protesters quietly stood displaying a large banner, “Will you Pray to stop Abortion?” I saw my neighbor a new Christian who returned to his Roman Catholic roots. I was convicted that I COULD stop and pray with them, and this also might be an opportunity god would allow me to use to minister to him and his wife.

So I stopped, and prayed – had to avoid the Hail Mary’s, but I could pray the Lord’s prayer in the name of the father, Son & Holy Spirit.

I hate abortion – we CAN pray asking God to stop it. And like it or not the RC were OUT doing something. How about using scripture, Psalm 139 or Prov 24:11-12 and praying right now?
Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. If you say, "But we knew nothing about this," does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?

I hope you will have time to read the article from Moody. I said it is a literal scandal -- not an epidemic -- even among reformed churches, and one source of information is the Bowie Crisis pregnancy center – But for the grace of God any woman might opt for an easy way out – and but for His grace it is possible for any of us to justify any (wrong) solution to life’s problems.

Am I being presumptious, or misreading, or is Rick Warren talking about partnering with the United Nations?

The UN supports and subsidizes government forced sterilization and forced abortion in the Second and Third World—mostly with American tax dollars.

__________________
Ryan
1689 London Baptist Confession

I don't know. Don't know much about him -- I see just goggling his name and UN, he drives many nuts.