I am new to this Board and am not sure where to ask this but I will try this forum.
I have been a member of a "Traditional" SB church for 21 years and providentially discovered the Doctrines of Grace about 3 years ago. As I have learned more and more it has filtered into my teaching more and more. I have led youth, college and adult Bible and book studies over the years. A couple of weeks ago I was informed that I would not be able to teach at church anymore because I was now being called a Calvinist and that was divisive. I have stayed at the church even though the teaching and preaching has been increasingly hard to listen to, trying not to be divisive. I have now had enough and will begin to look for a new church. Is this the wrong thing to do?? I have talked to the pastor and we are on different ends of the spectrum on this. He is a typical SBC 4 point Arminian.

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Marc Callahan
Deacon/Old Town Baptist Church
Winston Salem,NC

It sound as if our Lord is trying to tell you something. I would leave.

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~etexas~

Went through a similar thing myself brother. Politely and with charity move on and find a fellowship that teaches the free grace of God. You could also ask your pastor to listen to Al Mohler and Jeff Noblit and show him the Abstract of Principles. You could also(in love of course) show him how the SBS has left its foundation and traded it's birthright for a "mess of pottage".



Abstract of Principles



When the original charter of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary was adopted in 1858 it contained the following statement which constitutes as a part of the "fundamental laws." "Every professor of the institution shall be a member of a regular Baptist Church; and all persons accepting professorships in this Seminary shall be considered, by such acceptance, as engaging to teach in accordance with, and not contrary to, the Abstract of Principles hereinafter laid down, a departure from which principles on his part shall be grounds for his resignation or removal by the Trustees."

The following is an excerpt from the Fundamental Laws of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary written into its charter on April 30, 1858: Every Professor of the institution shall be a member of a regular Baptist Church; and all persons accepting Professorships in this Seminary, shall be considered by such acceptance, as engaging to teach in accordance with, and not contrary to, the Abstract of Principles hereinafter laid down." (Mueller: History of Southern Seminary; BROADMAN PRESS: P. 238).



I. THE SCRIPTURES

The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were given by inspiration of God, and are the only sufficient, certain and authoritative rule of all saving knowledge, faith and obedience.



II. GOD

There is but one God, the Maker, Preserver and Ruler of all things, having in and of himself, all perfections, and being infinite in them all; and to Him all creatures owe the highest love, reverence and obedience.



III. THE TRINITY

God is revealed to us as Father, Son and Holy Spirit each with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence or being.



IV. PROVIDENCE

God from eternity, decrees or permits all things that come to pass, and perpetually upholds, directs, and governs all creatures and all events; yet so as not in any wise to be the author or approver of sin nor to destroy the free will and responsibility of intelligent creatures.



V. ELECTION

Election is God's eternal choice of some persons unto everlasting life - not because of foreseen merit in them, but of his mere mercy in Christ - in consequence of which choice they are called, justified and glorified.



VI. THE FALL OF MAN

God originally created man in His own image, and free from sin; but, through the temptation of Satan, he transgressed the command of God, and fell from his original holiness and righteousness; whereby his posterity inherit a nature corrupt and wholly opposed to God and His law, are under condemnation, and as soon as they are capable of moral action, become actual transgressors.



VII. THE MEDIATOR

Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, is the divinely appointed mediator between God and man. Having taken upon Himself human nature, yet without sin, He perfectly fulfilled the law, suffered and died upon the cross for the salvation of sinners. He was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended to His Father, at whose right hand He ever liveth to make intercession for His people. He is the only Mediator, the Prophet, Priest and King of the Church, and Sovereign of the Universe.



VIII. REGENERATION

Regeneration is a change of heart, wrought by the Holy Spirit, who quickeneth the dead in trespasses and sins enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the Word of God, and renewing their whole nature, so that they love and practice holiness. It is a work of God's free and special grace alone.



IX. REPENTANCE

Repentance is an evangelical grace, wherein a person being, by the Holy Spirit, made sensible of the manifold evil of his sin, humbleth himself for it, with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrence, with a purpose and endeavor to walk before God so as to please Him in all things.



X. FAITH

Saving faith is the belief, on God's authority of whatsoever is revealed in His Word concerning Christ; accepting and resting upon Him alone for justification and eternal life. It is wrought in the heart by the Holy Spirit, and is accompanied by all other saving graces, and leads to a life of holiness.



XI. JUSTIFICATION

Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal of sinners, who believe in Christ, from all sin, through the satisfaction that Christ has made; not for anything wrought in them or done by them; but on account of the obedience and satisfaction of Christ, they receiving and resting on Him and His righteousness by faith.



XII. SANCTIFICATION

Those who have been regenerated are also sanctified, by God's word and Spirit dwelling in them. This sanctification is progressive through the supply of Divine strength, which all saints seek to obtain, pressing after a heavenly life in cordial obedience to all Christ's commands.



XIII. PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS

Those whom God hath accepted in the Beloved, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere to the end; and though they may fall, through neglect and temptation, into sin, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, bring reproach on the Church, and temporal judgments on themselves, yet they shall be renewed again unto repentance, and be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.



XIV. THE CHURCH

The Lord Jesus is the Head of the Church, which is composed of all his true disciples, and in Him is invested supremely all power for its government. According to his commandment, Christians are to associate themselves into particular societies or churches; and to each of these churches he hath given needful authority for administering that order, discipline and worship which he hath appointed. The regular officers of a Church are Bishops or Elders, and Deacons.



XV. BAPTISM

Baptism is an ordinance of the Lord Jesus, obligatory upon every believer, wherein he is immersed in water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as a sign of his fellowship with the death and resurrection of Christ, of remission of sins, and of his giving himself up to God, to live and walk in newness of life. It is prerequisite to church fellowship, and to participation in the Lord's Supper.



XVI. THE LORD'S SUPPER

The Lord's Supper is an ordinance of Jesus Christ, to be administered with the elements of bread and wine, and to be Observed by his churches till the end of the world. It is in no sense a sacrifice, but is designed to commemorate his death, to confirm the faith and other graces of Christians, and to be a bond, pledge and renewal of their communion with him, and of their church fellowship.



XVII. THE LORD'S DAY

The Lord's Day is a Christian institution for regular observance, and should be employed in exercises of worship and spiritual devotion, both public and private, resting from worldly employments and amusements, works of necessity and mercy only excepted.



XVIII. LIBERTY OF CONSCIENCE

God alone is Lord of the conscience, and He hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men, which are in anything contrary to His word, or not contained in it. Civil magistrates being ordained of God, subjection in all lawful things commanded by them ought to be yielded by us in the Lord, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.



XIV. THE RESURRECTION

The bodies of men after death return to dust, but their spirits return immediately to God - the righteous to rest with Him; the wicked, to be reserved under darkness to the judgment. At the last day, the bodies of all the dead, both just and unjust, will be raised.



XX. THE JUDGMENT

God hath appointed a day, wherein he will judge the world by Jesus Christ, when every one shall receive according to his deeds: the wicked shall go into everlasting punishment; the righteous, into everlasting life.

__________________
1689 Baptist Confession

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley, Wilderness Road Baptist Assembly.
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
www.wildernessroadbaptist.org

The pastor needs to implement discipline against you if he believes you to be teaching errantly.

Force his hand.

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Chris Latch
Corinth MS
Crossroads church - SBC
Evangelism leader

God is calling you out and providentially making it happen. Praise the Lord!! Although this is a painful thing it is also a great and wonderful thing.

The fact that you can no longer sit well under bad teaching is proof of God's working in your life and teaching you.

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Traci
Lynnwood OPC
Psalm 52:8-9
8 But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.
9 I will praise thee for ever, because thou hast done it: and I will wait on thy name; for it is good before thy saints.

Brother,

If you are very much alone in your theological convictions, and will constantly conflict with your pastor (and undeniably cause upset in the body) then I would say that cautiously, after prayer, and open and frank discussion with your Pastor, you should seek to leave, preferably with his blessing, and remaining in harmony with the membership of the church.

These are not trivial issues, they are major doctrinal matters which affect your church's whole agenda and program. Further, if you are being barred from serving the Lord for holding to the DoG I would agree with the above poster that you are, effectively, being told something clearly.

Nonetheless, seek to live at peace with all men!

JH

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Jonathan Hunt
1689'er
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Cheltenham Evangelical Free Church (Confessionally Based)
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.
-- Thomas Elsworth

BTW Marc, Winston Salem is a big town. I'm sure there is a good calvinistic Baptist church there somewhere. I know there is a good Free Presbyterian church there. Reggie Kimbrough is the pastor. I think he's a credo baptist.

I once believed that Kimbro was a credo baptist as well, but I had a personal friend of his tell me he was paedo baptist. Nothwithstanding your personal convictions on baptism, Kimbro is one of the finest preachers around. His messages on grace found at Sermon Audio have been very beneficial to me.

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Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

This is wise advice. Go in peace. The cause of the gospel does not need any more critics. The last thing any follower of Christ would ever want would be the cause of any discord in the name of 'true' doctrine.

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Kevin Rogers
Mount Zion ARP
Moncton NB

You are something else, Chris! But you may be right! Not many would choose to go this route, but it has merit. If the pastor tries to explain from the Bible why the Calvinist is wrong, he will fall flat on his face. I think this is the greatest fear of a typical Arminian elder. "How do I teach against the DoG?" I can also see trying to maintain peace but I don't know... If you are going to leave anyway, you might as well let them try to kick you out. (I know my wife would agree with you)

I love the original charter of the SBTS as well, Mr. Farley. Has there ever been an official document from the Seminary that ammended the original charter?

__________________

It should be the *last* thing you do, but sometimes it must be done. Hence Luther...

I'm sure you understand the internal struggle I have at times over these issues. I'd say more, but to be honest, I fear that I already say all I need to say about my own situation and the questions I have struggled with in my own church.


I think Luther would agree - and we need some Martin Luthers in the SBC today.


IIRC, no. I do know that the staff still has to sign the AoP every year, and Mohler takes that signing seriously.

I certainly agree with the spirit behind what you're getting at, but many, many SBC churches are at the point of needing disruption more than peace. We're at the point of being like the guys in Jeremiah 6, crying peace when there is no peace.

Marc, you're always welcome at Redeemer Presbyterian.

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Scott Roper
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA): "A bunch of hippie Calvinists"
Winston-Salem, NC

Perhaps the reason that the SBC is in its present situation is because not enough Godly men stood their ground.

How exactly does Mohler take it seriously?

When Mohler took over at SBC, he made it clear that the accepted practice of signing the AoP even though the signer didn't hold to the AoP would no longer be tolerated.

His position was that to teach there, you had to sign the AoP, and to sign the AoP, you had to ACTUALLY MEAN YOU AFFIRMED ITS POSITIONS.

Lots of professors ended up elsewhere shortly thereafter, and SBTS is now a decidely Calvinistic, conservative school, just as Boyce intended.

Chris, this not the answer. This is not about making an example of the pastor or the church. With grace and dignity it is time to move on. You owe it to your pastor to tell him why. The abstract principle cited by James is a good start.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Deo volente

I assure you that I agree with the spirit behind your post, but considering the state of the SBC today, I have to strongly disagree.

The original poster is not causing division; not by teaching sound doctrine, and not by expecting a fair discipline process.

The pastor is causing division by teaching errant doctrine, censuring sound teaching, and expecting those who support sound teaching to 'go away quietly'.

I genuinely wish I could accept the idea of setting truth aside and leaving in the interest of peace. Seriously, I wish I could.

Marc:

Find another community where you can serve the Lord, your situation will not get better but worse.

Grace and peace

John

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John
Evangelical Free Church, no offices held
Langhorne, PA

[B]δός δοξαν τῳ θεῳ.[/B]
[B]ιδου ποιω τα εσχατα ως τα πρωτα.
הבל הבלים[/B]

That's what some said to Martin Luther too. The Gospel doesn't need anymore critics. But how does standing up for the Gospel amongst a body of professed believers impugn it? Take a stand!

Here is some simple advice, as I have been there and seen that before. LEAVE! You're not going to be treated right and you don't belong there. If you want you can make a scene on the way out the door and post remonstrances like Martin Luther, or buy a copy of James Boice and Phillip Ryken's The Doctrines of Grace for every person in your Sunday School as you announce your departure, and bid them bon voyage as you goto a real church that is confessionally 1646/1689 and faithful to the whole counsel of God's Word (that is if you want to remain a Baptist!)

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Ryan
1689 London Baptist Confession

I agree - I actually forced the issue on the subject of alcohol - was serving as interim music minister at an SBC - was considered for full time - mentioned that I was not convicted concerning total abstinence to the pastor - he disclosed it to committee - met with committee - recommended that if they were serious about their conviction, they should drop me as interim, too - they wouldn't do it...seemed cowardly to me...so I finished my commitment and left.

__________________
-JD
1Thess5:21
Ordained Deacon, PCA
Serving in the SBC
MS

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