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02-20-2008, 01:34 PM
|  | Puritanboard Doctor | | Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Mandeville, LA
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| | | Mark Dever on "The Bondage of Guidance"
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Chris
Member at Grace Community Baptist Church, Mandeville, LA
Beware of a religion without holdfasts. But if I get a grip upon a doctrine they call me a bigot. Let them do so. Bigotry is a hateful thing, and yet that which is now abused as bigotry is a great virtue, and greatly needed in these frivolous times. I have been inclined lately to start a new denomination, and call it "the Church of the Bigoted." Spurgeon
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02-20-2008, 01:59 PM
|  | Bubba | | Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Beloit, Wisconsin, USA
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Originally Posted by Pilgrim  | Good and sensible words.
__________________ Ivan Schoen, Pastor * Maranatha Baptist Church, Poplar Grove, IL * http://maranatha-sbc.org/ "I want to assist churches and to assist pastors in training pastors. But, after fourteen years of service in this capacity, I am absolutely certain that the finest theological seminary on earth is absolutely incompetent at replicating the actual life of a Gospel congregation. I want to train a generation of pastors who will train pastors, and I want to help them in that task." --- Dr. R. Albert Mohler, President of THE Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, KY |
02-20-2008, 02:34 PM
|  | McFadderator Minimizing | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: San Gabriel, CA
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Originally Posted by Ivan Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim | Good and sensible words. | 
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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)
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02-20-2008, 02:49 PM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Gambrills, MD
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A fit time for a fit message.
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02-20-2008, 04:01 PM
|  | Puritanboard Postgraduate | | Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chapel Hill, NC
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It was pretty good, but I'm not so sure about the last paragraph. Quote: |
A subjective sense of leading--when we've asked for it (as in James 1:5 we ask for wisdom) and when God freely gives it--is wonderful. The desire for such a subjective sense of leading, however, is too often, in contemporary evangelical piety, binding our brothers and sisters in Christ, paralyzing them from enjoying the good choices that God may provide, and causing them to wait wrongly before acting.
| Does the bible say we should expect any subjective senses of leading? To use James 1:5 to support this idea seems wrong to me. Wisdom is not a subjective impression from the Spirit.
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DAVIDIVS DOCTVS VTRIVSQVE LINGVAE
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics
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02-20-2008, 04:20 PM
| | McFadderator Minimizing | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: San Gabriel, CA
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I took him to be saying that while the Lord does guide at times in subjective ways, the normal approach is to rely upon clear biblical precepts and common sense judgment. However, he did not want to rule out any possibility of subjective leading and used James 1:5 as promising that God offers wisdom in response to prayer.
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02-20-2008, 04:23 PM
| | Puritanboard Postgraduate | | Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chapel Hill, NC
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Originally Posted by DMcFadden I took him to be saying that while the Lord does guide at times in subjective ways, the normal approach is to rely upon clear biblical precepts and common sense judgment. However, he did not want to rule out any possibility of subjective leading and used James 1:5 as promising that God offers wisdom in response to prayer. | Right, I agree that this is what he was saying. But what evidence is there that we should ever expect the Lord to guide in subjective ways? How would we be able to tell which "impressions" are God's nudge?
In James 1:5 a person is lacking wisdom and praying for wisdom; he isn't struggling to make a decision and praying for a subjective word from God telling him what to do. Such a use of this verse seems like a stretch to me.
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02-20-2008, 04:52 PM
|  | Puritanboard Junior | | Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Downingtown, PA
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Originally Posted by DMcFadden I took him to be saying that while the Lord does guide at times in subjective ways, the normal approach is to rely upon clear biblical precepts and common sense judgment. However, he did not want to rule out any possibility of subjective leading and used James 1:5 as promising that God offers wisdom in response to prayer. | Is that what the Bible teaches? Subjective leading? Quote: |
So I am free. Regardless of the sense of leading I had.
| Or it could have just been a fragment of an underdone potato.
I'm afraid the subject is too involved for such a brief comment.
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Tom Albrecht
Member, Covenant URCNA, New Holland, PA.
"I'm not a famous man. I'm just a simple country doctor with horse sense."
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02-21-2008, 02:24 AM
|  | The MacDaddy | | Join Date: Nov 2005
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The Lord leads by desires too, and desires are subjective.
For instance, even the calling into the ministry is according to "..if a man desires the office of a bishop.."
Our desires, in line with God's Word, and seconded by the desires of the larger corporate body of Christ can help us know God's will.
Seen in this way, guidence is very subjective... but still anchored on God's Word (especailly since the Bible is far from exhasutive on many day to day decisions).
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Pergamum
"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone
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