Living soberly, righteously, and godly

blhowes · #1 (**permalink**) 02-16-2008, 01:27 PM

Tit 2:11-12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Some Christians use this verse to justify not smoking, drinking, dancing, etc., where etc. could almost be replaced by anything that's fun or entertaining to do. Their goal is to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world, which is a good goal. The means to the end is questionable.

What does it mean to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts?

What does it mean to live soberly, righteously, and godly? If evidence of such living is NOT not drinking, smoking, dancing, etc., then what barometer should we use that indicates that we are living soberly, righteously, and godly?

Daniel Ritchie · #2 (**permalink**) 02-16-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

what barometer should we use that indicates that we are living soberly, righteously, and godly?

The infallible word of God. What is un-sober, unrighteous and ungodly must be defined by the Bible.

greenbaggins · #3 (**permalink**) 02-16-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Quote:

what barometer should we use that indicates that we are living soberly, righteously, and godly?

The infallible word of God. What is un-sober, unrighteous and ungodly must be defined by the Bible.

And specifically, the law of God.

turmeric · #4 (**permalink**) 02-16-2008, 02:24 PM

I don't think sober means grim, I think it means watchful.

TaylorOtwell · #5 (**permalink**) 02-16-2008, 03:05 PM

I too am interested in the true definition of sobriety. Is it the opposite of levity? I tend to picture sobriety as continual seriousness, is this correct?

blhowes · #6 (**permalink**) 02-16-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Quote:

what barometer should we use that indicates that we are living soberly, righteously, and godly?

The infallible word of God. What is un-sober, unrighteous and ungodly must be defined by the Bible.

So, for starters, one characteristic of ungodliness is a lack of focus on God's law.

Psalm 1
Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that...
<snip>
... his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psa 1:4 The ungodly are not so...

blhowes · #7 (**permalink**) 02-16-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turmeric

I don't think sober means grim, I think it means watchful.

I'd heard something like that also, or clear thinking.

blhowes · #8 (**permalink**) 02-16-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaylorOtwell

I too am interested in the true definition of sobriety. Is it the opposite of levity? I tend to picture sobriety as continual seriousness, is this correct?

Tit 2:2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

Here's what Gill says:

Tit 2:2 - That the aged men be sober,.... Or "vigilant", and watchful over themselves, their conduct and conversation, lest being evil, it should be drawn into an example by younger persons: this is to be understood not of men in office, of presbyters or elders; for their characters are described in the preceding chapter; but of men in years, of ancient men, that are professors of religion, and members of churches: who should also be

He speaks of levity in his comments about the word grave:

grave; in their behaviour, speech, and dress; levity of conversation, frothy language, and airy dress, are very unbecoming aged persons:

VirginiaHuguenot · #9 (**permalink**) 02-16-2008, 10:00 PM

Thomas Boston, "Of Sin in General" in his Works, Vol. 1, pp. 262-263:

Quote:

Of all the glorious and benign constellations of the divine attributes which shine in the law of God, his holiness hath the brightest lustre. God is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works: but the most precious and venerable monument of his holiness is the law. This is a true draught of his image, and a clear copy of his nature and will. It is the perspicuous rule of our duty, without any blemish or imperfection. See what a high encomium the apostle gives it, "The commandment is holy, just, and good," Rom 7:12. It enjoins nothing but what is absolutely good, without the least mixture and tincture of evil. It is a full and complete rule, in nothing defective, and in nothing superfluous, but comprehends the whole duty of man. The sum of it is set down by the apostle, Titus 2:11. We are to live soberly, i.e. we are to abstain from every thing that may blemish and stain the excellency of our reasonable nature. We are to live righteously. This respects the state and situation wherein God hath placed us in the world for the advancing of his glory. It includes and comprehends in it all the respective duties we owe to others, to whom we are united by the bands of nature, of civil society, or of spiritual communion. And we are to live godly, which takes in all the internal and outward duties which we owe to God, who is the Sovereign of our spirits, whose will must be the rule, and his glory the end of all our actions. In short, the law is so contrived and framed, that abstracting from the authority of the Lawgiver, its holiness and goodness lays an eternal obligation upon us to obey its dictates. Now, sin is directly and formally a contrariety to the infinite sanctity and purity of God; consisting in a not doing what the law commands, or in doing that which it expressly forbids; and God cannot look upon it, but with infinite detestation, Hab 1:13. He cannot but hate that which is opposite to the glory of his nature, and to the lustre of all his perfections.

Thomas Taylor, An Exposition of Titus, pp. 190-191:

Quote:

Doct. 2. Where the gospel brings salvation to any person, it looks for return of some recompense, namely that it be entertained with sobriety, righteousness, and godliness, which are the three graces which go hand in hand, every one looking at another.

Sobriety keeps the house, and moderates the mind at home; righteousness looks forth and gives every man his due abroad; piety looks up to God and gives Him His right. Sobriety preserves, and is content with its own state and portion. Righteousness preserves, and is content that other men enjoy their estate and portion. Piety preserves, and is willing that God's part be reserved unto him.

Again, sobriety must go before, as a nurse of the other two; for he who deals not soberly cannot deal justly, but deprives men of their due. Righteousness without godliness is but atheism, and a beautiful abomination; and piety without righteousness is but hypocrisy. How absurd it is to be precise in dealing with man, and careless how wickedly we deal with God!

Now as sobriety is listed first, as the nurse of the two latter, so piety is listed last, as the mother of the two former; for where it is lacking, neither of the former can commend a man unto God. Therefore none of these three may be forgotten, for they jointly contain all the rules of Christian life.

In each we will observe two points, its proper work and the rules by which it may be practiced.

1. First, of sobriety. Its proper work is to moderate the mind, and contain it in due compass, both in all the affections of the soul and the actions of life unto which it turns itself. This will appear in things outward and inward.

(a) First, in the inward gifts of the mind, it teaches three things.

(i) To be wise to sobriety, and not to presume above that which is written. It does not allow us to pry into the ark, as the Bethshemites did to their cost, neither in inferior things to meddle with curious arts and sciences; but it exercises itself in things which not only have a show of wisdom, but which are profitable, yea necessary.

(ii) To contain and content itself with its own measure of gifts, to know their own bounds and keep within them. The portion of grace, which is given according to the measure of the gift of Christ, it acknowledges with thankfulness, but does not arrogate that which he has not. This would be to run over the measure, and Christ gives no gift which is not in the measure of it. We have a singular precedent of sobriety in the apostles themselves. "We rejoice not in things outside our measure, nor stretch ourselves beyond our measure, nor boast of things outside our measure" (2 Cor. 10:13,14).

(iii) As it teaches a man to know himself, so it teaches him not to despise another, although he has not received the like measure (1 Cor. 4:6); it does not swell against another, for itself has nothing but what it received. It does not eny those whom God has made superiors, since the wisdom from above is pure, peaceable, not judging and not avenging (James 3:17).

(b) In outward things, it is a moderator, as may appear in things concerning a man's calling, estate, pleasures, and things indifferent.

(i) It forces a man to abide in his calling, but not as drudge unto it; it will not allow the heart to be oppressed with the cares of this life, no more than with surfeiting and drunkenness. It curbs the restive desire of increasing wealth, and so both gives freedom to the duties of the general calling, and fences from being too much wrapped and entangled in the duties of the particular calling.

(ii) In his estate, this virtue of sobriety settles a man in a quiet comfort and contentment, for it teaches him to lack and to abound, and puts into his hand the benefit of contentment in all states. If want comes, he who was rich can rejoice in being made low (James 1:9); he is taught to be empty as well as full. Again, if prosperity befalls him, and the world comes upon him, this prosperity does not puff him up; he can use the world as not using it. This excellent grace hedges his heart, and will not allow it to be greedy in its desires.

(iii) In the pleasures and delights of this life, in which a number have become as filthily drunk as others in beastly quaffing. Prove the heart with joy, and bid it take pleasure in earthly things; it can say of laughter. "You are madness," and to joy, "What do you do?" (Eccl. 2:1) It does not allow a man to pour out his heart to pleasure, nor to become a lover of pleasure more than of God.

(iv) In things indifferent, as meat, drink, apparel, sleep, etc., it keeps within compass. It does not look at the wine in the cup; it drinks for strength, and not for drunkenness; to make a man more fit for his calling, not duller and heavier. In apparel it shuns pride, lightness, and idleness, and reduces to comeliness and decency, and inward decking rather than outward. Its attire not only becomes holiness, but also agrees with the calling, custom of the country, example of the graver sort of our rank, and the right ends of apparel. Sobriety causes sleep to be seasonable and moderate, and does not allow a man to sleep until he is clothed in rages. In marriage, it holds from being drowned in carnal delight, but moderates the affection as though he were free from a wife (1 Cor. 7:29). Thus the excellence of this grace is shown.

Sonoftheday · #10 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbaggins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

Quote:

what barometer should we use that indicates that we are living soberly, righteously, and godly?

The infallible word of God. What is un-sober, unrighteous and ungodly must be defined by the Bible.

And specifically, the law of God.

This is such a significant thing that is lost whenever an understanding of God's Moral Law is taught. I was raised very much with this dont drink, dont smoke, dont chew, dont gamble, but always told the Law is OT stuff.

(It's kinda funny that the same Sunday school teachers who taught me that would often say "Can you believe so-n-so said that dancing was a sin, I'd like to see him show me that in the bible.")

Pergamum · #11 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 04:41 AM

"In marriage, it holds from being drowned in carnal delight"

What's wrong with carnal delight in marriage? That sounds pretty good.

blhowes · #12 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 09:28 AM

Andrew,
Thanks for your response.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Thomas Taylor, An Exposition of Titus, pp. 190-191:
Sobriety keeps the house, and moderates the mind at home; righteousness looks forth and gives every man his due abroad; piety looks up to God and gives Him His right. Sobriety preserves, and is content with its own state and portion. Righteousness preserves, and is content that other men enjoy their estate and portion. Piety preserves, and is willing that God's part be reserved unto him.

Again, sobriety must go before, as a nurse of the other two; for he who deals not soberly cannot deal justly, but deprives men of their due. Righteousness without godliness is but atheism, and a beautiful abomination; and piety without righteousness is but hypocrisy. How absurd it is to be precise in dealing with man, and careless how wickedly we deal with God!

Now as sobriety is listed first, as the nurse of the two latter, so piety is listed last, as the mother of the two former; for where it is lacking, neither of the former can commend a man unto God. Therefore none of these three maybe forgotten, for they jointly contain all the rules of Christian life.

I especially like this part, and what followed. Neat how it all ties together.

VirginiaHuguenot · #13 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blhowes

Andrew,
Thanks for your response.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Thomas Taylor, An Exposition of Titus, pp. 190-191:
Sobriety keeps the house, and moderates the mind at home; righteousness looks forth and gives every man his due abroad; piety looks up to God and gives Him His right. Sobriety preserves, and is content with its own state and portion. Righteousness preserves, and is content that other men enjoy their estate and portion. Piety preserves, and is willing that God's part be reserved unto him.

Again, sobriety must go before, as a nurse of the other two; for he who deals not soberly cannot deal justly, but deprives men of their due. Righteousness without godliness is but atheism, and a beautiful abomination; and piety without righteousness is but hypocrisy. How absurd it is to be precise in dealing with man, and careless how wickedly we deal with God!

Now as sobriety is listed first, as the nurse of the two latter, so piety is listed last, as the mother of the two former; for where it is lacking, neither of the former can commend a man unto God. Therefore none of these three maybe forgotten, for they jointly contain all the rules of Christian life.

I especially like this part, and what followed. Neat how it all ties together.

I really like Taylor's exposition of this passage; I found it sweet reading last night. He continues on for a number of pages, but I didn't have the energy to keep typing. But thanks for the encouragement to read it, and I'm glad if it was a blessing to you, brother.

armourbearer · #14 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 08:26 PM

Thomas Manton has an excellent series of sermons on Titus 2:11-14 in vol. 16 of his Works. His definition of sobriety is "the moderation of our affections in the pursuit and use of all earthly things" (p. 120). He applies this definition to pleasures and recreations, sleep, pasttime, meats and drinks, and the necessary supports of human life, pomp and apparel, and the cares of this world. He provides much wisdom from heaven for life on earth.

Coram Deo · #15 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 08:34 PM

What would be a definition of "airy dress"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blhowes

Tit 2:2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

Here's what Gill says:

Tit 2:2 - That the aged men be sober,.... Or "vigilant", and watchful over themselves, their conduct and conversation, lest being evil, it should be drawn into an example by younger persons: this is to be understood not of men in office, of presbyters or elders; for their characters are described in the preceding chapter; but of men in years, of ancient men, that are professors of religion, and members of churches: who should also be

He speaks of levity in his comments about the word grave:

grave; in their behaviour, speech, and dress; levity of conversation, frothy language, and airy dress, are very unbecoming aged persons:

py3ak · #16 (**permalink**) 02-17-2008, 09:27 PM

Would it be a fair thumbnail sketch to say this?
We must,
1. Take serious things seriously and have the discernment to distinguish the important from the trivial (soberly)
2. Direct our lives according to the rule of God's word (righteously)
3. Do all that we do unto the Lord, in the consciousness of being His servants and standing before His face (godly)