Scott, I think that I should have the poll question clearer. The question is not, "What is the worldliest place in the U.S?" A lot of the responses so far seem to indicate that this is what people were thinking.

Rather the question is, "Which place best illustrates the true nature of worldliness?" And so I tried to pick places which stand for something (though they don't stand for things so obviously as I would have thought). We've had several threads lately that have sort of hinged on how people define worldliness, and I was hoping to get a feel for what kind of PB consensus there might be on the nature of worldliness. However, I begin to think that my poll was not a sufficiently clear way to do this.

To me Las Vegas represents gambling, drunkenness, lasciviousness, dissipation. If any of you have read Petronius' Satyricon you will know what I mean. It is not that you have to go to Las Vegas to obtain these things: most of them go on in most locations on most Friday nights.
Hollywood represents the entertainment industry --with the sloth, indolence, self-indulgence, concern about trivial things, and appetite for gossip that accompany an immoderate use of such recreations. A Puritan might have referred to stage plays in this connection.
Wall Street was meant to stand for those who are married to the pursuit of property, whose money is their life, whether they are honest or crooked in their attempt to get it: a vote for Wall Street would to me sound like a vote for avarice as the soul of worldliness.
Washington, D.C., of course, stands for politicking, for grasping at power, for greed in a non-financial sense and ambition. If the poll had drawn from Shakespearian phrases instead of geographical locations I would have had the line, "No man's pie is free from his ambitious finger".
Golden Corral (I have been there countless times) stands for the "abundance of bread", for gluttony, and by extension for the more "respectable" forms of self-indulgence. Within the Christian church there is reproof for those who live in chambering and wantonness; those who will not work are (very properly) preached against. But many a thunderer from the pulpit against other men's sins has very obviously not learned self-control in the matter of eating. It is not that going to Golden Corral necessarily implies that this describes you: it is that it was the "all-you-can-eat buffet" that seemed to me to be most widely extended throughout the U.S. Naturally, this might show nothing more than how little I have traveled.

At this point it's probably too late and the poll results are skewed beyond repair, because I didn't make the point of the original question clear enough. But it has served at least this far, that it is quite obvious that there are different views of what constitutes worldliness. I think coming to a fuller understanding of worldliness would not only help us in some of the practical discussions that we have on here, but would also help in our Christian walk. I think one of the subtle tricks that are played on us by our three great enemies is that we all have a tendency to define sin in terms of what other people are doing. And so in fundamentalism, they preach against what Hollywood and Las Vegas represent: but they seem oblivious to the worldliness in their midst. But if the Fundamentalists do it, I would be very surprised if the Reformed don't do it to some extent as well, if you and I don't engage in that very practice, at least unconsciously and sporadically.

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Ruben
Moderator
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I'd guess I would have to vote for the whole continent. In thinking about worldliness, I have always thought that Wesley's definition of the world as "anything that cools one's affection for Christ" was quite good. Thus while we certainly acknowledge that certain places appear to owe their existence to meet the needs of sin, we can also probably acknowledge that the nice little home wrapped inside a white picket fence owned by our lost neighbor might be as apt an expression of the world as a brothel or casino.

The fact that we exist in the world means that temptation lurks around every corner. I have driven through Las Vegas and was impressed by some it architecture, although I had no desire at all to gamble away what the Lord has been pleased to give to me. On the other hand, put me inside a sporting shop or woodworking store and I might have to really work not to covet the contents.

In regard to the all your can eat buffet, I think that the Christian can enjoy a bountiful table whether in his dining room or at the buffet and rejoice in God's provision. The Scriptures share in a few places the bountiful fare of God's blessing through great feasts and laden tables. I am not sure that the concept of diverse fare and the ability to eat what you desire are fundamentally worldly. Gluttony and drunkeness are sins because they exhibit not the characteristic of self control. The buffet can indeed be a temptation to the glutton, but I am not sure that would equate the concept of a buffet as an expression of worldliness.

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Bob Leverton
Elder, Faith Baptist Church
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Either the whole continent or an X-ray of my heart.

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Mr. Leverton, perhaps the attempt to pick iconic and representative places was misguided, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. I appreciated your post very much, as I do think that much which simply seems standard in our society is in fact rampant worldliness. That was one reason for this thread: I wanted to challenge myself and others to see worldliness not just as something "out there" in dens of iniquity, but very much closer to home. With regard to the all-you-can-eat buffet I was hoping that my post #41 had made clear that I am not against food or restaurants or abundance, but simply using a place where gluttony obviously does occur to stand in for the sin itself.

I chose other.

The reason why is because I live in Salt Lake City which I see as no different than Vegas, Hollywood, or the French Quarter. Salt Lake has it's share of homosexuals, crime, etc, and not to mention the idolatrous Mormons who mock God with their blasphemous lies. IMHO, Salt Lake deserves God's judgment just as much as Vegas or Hollywood.

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John
Member
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net

I believe that because the US has lost its moral compass the rest of the continent loses direction as well.

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Jeff Wyman
Seminarian
Little Farms Chapel OPC, Coopersville, MI
Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary, Grand Rapids, MI

"May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence." 1 Peter 1:2-3 (ESV)