i.e. where to live, which job to take, which major to declare, etc.

__________________
Tim Potts
Siloam Springs, Arkansas
Member of Covenant Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Student at John Brown University
-Let the church change the world and rather than the world change the church-

This book is a good place to start:


And here is a good review of its strengths and weaknesses:

Review at 9 Marks Ministries

__________________
Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

Tim, two previous threads that might apply to this issue are here and here.

You might want to continue one or both of those threads - or if you have thoughts of a different nature than what those threads address, could you elaborate on them here?

__________________
Chris


A passion to know and reflect Christ by living and demonstrating the truth and richness of the historic Reformed faith

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Christopher Blum
Member of Trinity Presbyterian Church of Northern Kentucky (PCA) in Burlington, KY

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Dr. Peter Masters of London's Metropolitan Tabernacle has written a helpful book on this subject entitled "Steps for Guidance".

http://www.tabernaclebookshop.org/pr...?partno=MAST48

Anyone who knows of Dr. Masters knows that he is adamantly opposed to the charismatic movement including their "mystic" ideas of finding God's will. And yet he also argues against the modern notion, as put forth in Garry Friesen's book "Decision Making and the Will of God" (referenced above) that God does not have a specific will for Christians on decisions not directly governed by Biblical commands. Dr. Masters affirms the traditional view that we should seek to find the will of God in all the major specific decisions of our lives. (In fact, Dr. Masters devotes the first chapter of his book to a rebuttal of the new view).

To state the matter in the utmost brevity, I believe it is primarily a matter of really being immersed in the Scriptures and in prayer such that the principles and commands God has given us in the Bible really shape our entire thought process, that God's thoughts really become our thoughts. I believe it is rare that two choices before us (in regards to career, studies, domicile, etc.) are really equal if viewed with the full range of Biblical principles in mind. And God guides us in specific decisions by opening up the Scriptures to us and showing us how to apply them, and reinforcing such decisions through godly counsel and by His providence.

At the end of the day, I think Mr. Friessen in his book has practically recommended a similar method of decision-making, in that he emphasises making decisions according to the "way of wisdom" given in the Scriptures. But I think he errs in his explanation of the nature of God's will toward our individual decisions, effectively saying that for many specific decisions there is no one "right" decision and God is pleased to let us decide as we like as long as we do not violate any express commands of the Bible. And in doing this I believe he opens the door to much carelessness and an exaggerated sense of "liberty" among Christians (though I doubt that was his intention).

And so I would much more recommend Dr. Masters' book on this subject.


[Edited on 11-28-2005 by Jie-Huli]

__________________
Jie-Huli
Metropolitan Tabernacle Church
London, England

This is an issue I have thought over in the past, eventually coming to something resembling Mr. Friessen´s view. That being said, I do not see anything I would strongly object to in Dr Master´s view as articulated by JH (assuming I understand correctly off course).

The thing that drove me more towards Friessen´s type of understanding was many of the teachers who promoted a "˜finding God´s will for your life´ type teaching seem inevitably to me to lead to much uncertainly in the Christian life.

Assuming we are talking only about those decisions that are still "˜open´ "“ say when between two options neither is sinful and neither is expressedly commanded, than between the two options there will always be biblical supports we can find both for and against each side. Sometimes the "˜balance´, so to speak will be so overwhelming as to recommend strongly one side. Yet other times the arguments will be fairly equally stacked on either side. In that case what is the believer to do? I guess what I am opposed to is the school of thinking that promotes a "˜peace of mind´ type criteria for determining the choice God approves off.

To give a practical example, take the example of a young man decision which university course to undertake (or perhaps if he should go to university at all). How would that man come to a decision? Given the vast array of choices available and the myriad biblical considerations that might recommend or warn against each choice can he ever be sure he has made the "˜right´ decision?

Another thing that I had pondered about before was, what degree of biblical scrutiny should we give each decision we make in life? When is a decision major and when is it minor? Does God have a specific will for what college course we should take, what job to accept or which woman to marry only? Or does it extend to if we should eat out on a particular night and which restaurant we should go to. I know that is quibbling and using an extreme example, but I do feel there is not much biblical basis for differentiating decisions into types like this.

In the end, I believe that God has allowed Christians some measure of liberty in areas not expressedly condemned or commanded by his word. I understand that saying Christians can do whatsoever they want as long as it is not sin is an excessive view of liberty. But I feel that as phraseology goes, putting decisions not expressedly governed by scripture in terms of Christian stewardship (not just of money but of time, talent etc) and off our need to one day give an account to Christ for everything we have done is a better way to go than saying God has a "˜specific´ will for every decision we may make.

[Edited on 11-28-2005 by satz]

__________________
Mark
Independent baptist
Singapore

Tim,
one important principle you need to remember is that the decision may not always be a right or wrong choice (a matter of God's revealed will). We study the scriptures and then we are able to recognize if something is morally wrong. Some decisions don't involve a moral choice. Which job should I take? As long as one is not an immoral choice then it's simply a matter of listing the advantages and disadvantages. Don't agonize over whether it is God's will if either choice does not violate a biblical principle.

I've seen to many young believers get 'paralyzed' while seeking 'God's will' when the choices didn't violate a biblical principle. Where to live, which job, what major? Most likely you will not violate God's revealed will in any of these decisions so decide based on the advantages and disadvantages and then commit your way to the Lord.

In the end, don't violate God's revealed will as expressed in Scripture and don't worry about His secret will, you can't violate that.

__________________
Bob Vigneault (Bawb Vēēn-yo)
"We are God's children and He's the Father of all fathers and we need to obey him." Jean-Baptiste Vigneault (5)

The Heartbeat of Heaven (blog) MySpace (Music), MySpace (Personal)
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But do not Biblical principles give guidance and direction in all decisions (such as where to live, which job to take, etc.) even if they do not involve a direct violation of a Biblical command? Since you say that it is "unlikely" one would violate God's revealed will in choices involving where to live, which job to take, etc., I take it that by "God's revealed will" you are referring to express commands in the Scriptures. Then you are saying that all we need to concern ourselves with in decision-making is making sure we do not violate express commands of Scripture, and then we are free to make whatever choices we like?

What about prayerfully wrestling with how Scriptural principles and values bear on the decisions before us? These are not always as simple as looking at direct commands which speak directly to the matter in question, but I believe that there is almost no decision in which the choices before us come up "equal" when all moral, spiritual and Biblical considerations are weighed in. I am not saying we can see into the secret will of God, I just believe that the scope of Biblical instruction is wider than your post suggests (unless I have misunderstood you).

Blessings,

Jie-Huli

[Edited on 11-28-2005 by Jie-Huli]

Here are two good articles that were published in New Horizons . . . they're pretty helpful on the subject and not too long:

Finding God´s Will for Your Life by Phillip Jensen with Tony Payne
http://opc.org/old/new_horizons/NH04/01a.html

Pitfalls in Finding God´s Will for Your Life by R. B. Kuiper
http://opc.org/old/new_horizons/NH04/01b.html

Also helpful would be Warfield's article on Christian Mysticism in the Baker set; simply eye-opening

__________________
Casey Bessette
Westminster OPC • West Suburbs of Chicago • My Blog: Paradise Regained

"It is part of the calling of the ekklesia to learn to know the love of Christ that surpasses all knowledge and also to make known within the world of science 'the manifold wisdom of God' in order that the final end of theology, as of all things, may be that the name of the Lord is glorified. Theology and dogmatics, too, exist for the Lord's sake." — Herman Bavinck, Reformed Dogmatics, vol. 1, p. 46

Jie-Huli,

I guess one question would be if it would not be possible to be faced with a decision where there are more than one choice that would be accordance with God's Word?

If so, is it Biblical to have one's conscience bound by something other than the Word?

No Jie-Huli, you understood my post perfectly. Well done.

I have found in my life that there has always been a godly plan and God's plan. The godly plan is the plan that I form based on bilblical principles. We have an obligation to form and follow a godly plan. God's plan, as you know is what will really happen, it defies formulas. We can only be faithful to God's revealed will.

Too many people have formed a godly plan and when God brought suffering into their lives they assumed that they acted outside of God's will. Not necessarily, God will use whatever means necessary to transform us into the image of Christ. There is not a lot of mystery in discovering God's will for us, it is simply a matter of planning according to God's word.

Every decision does not need to be predicated by great spiritual wrestling, but every decision must be followed by dedication to the glory of God and an attitude of 'Thy Will Be Done'.

I keep reminding myself that just because a door opens you are not required to go through it. But as Bob says God will use that as a teaching and conforming opportunity.

__________________
Gerry Winebrenner
member Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Janesville WI

Psalm 95:6-7
Oh come, let us worship and bow down; let us kneel before the LORD, our Maker!
For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand.

Yes Fred, I think that Friesen's book is the most helpful I've read. I agree with his basic premise. My only major negative critique of it is that he is unnecessarily "wordy" in that he is redundant, repeating himself over and over. But, then, I suppose that could serve as a positive critique as well, because you do not miss his point unless you are determined to miss it.

DTK

__________________
Sola Scriptura est norma normans non normata
David T. King, pastor
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Elkton, Maryland
Augustine (354-430): Therefore what He [i.e., Christ] has deigned to speak to us, we ought to believe that He meant us to understand. But if we do not understand He, being asked, gives understanding, who gave His Word unasked. NPNF1: Vol. VII, Tractates on John, Tractate XXII, §1.

Good question. My answer, in short, would be that though we might be faced with decisions in which more than one choice would be in accordance with God's Word (in the sense that these choices would not directly violate specific express commands of the Scriptures), one of the choices will almost certainly be superior according to the general principles and teachings of Scripture, and we are duty-bound to diligently and prayerfully seek to find which choice this is.

Our conscience is not to be bound by something other than the Word. However, it is not only the specific express commands of Scripture that bind the Christian, but the general principles of Scripture as well.

To give some examples, consider the following verses, chosen at random:


Now, it is clear that none of these verses give express commands as to whether I should live in City X or City Y, or whether I should work in Job X or Job Y, etc. Yet in making these decisions, I most certainly have the duty to let my decisions be guided first and foremost by these and other Scriptural considerations. Decisions are not made in a vacuum, but are directed by what is in the wellspring of our hearts, be it worldliness or conformity to the Word of God.

I am indeed conscience-bound to make sure my decisions are made not just in accordance with the express "Thou shalt"s and "Thou shalt not"s of Scipture, but in accordance with all the principles and values taught me in Scripture. Some Scriptural principles are so far reaching that they must guide every single decision which comes before me. I am no less conscience-bound to general principles than I am to specific commands. I am conscience-bound to wrestle prayerfully with how all these general principles relate to the question before me, and again, I doubt there are any situations in which the choices are really equal when all Scriptural factors are weighed in.

So then, we can gain assurance and confidence as to what is the will of God in individual decisions. And we shall all give an account for the decisions we make. We are imperfect and will make mistakes . . . I certainly have. God is gracious and longsuffering towards His children. But if we do not at least have the mindset that we want to follow God's will in every decision we make, or if we give ourselves the excuse that God is "neutral" towards the decision before us, I believe this is quite a perilous thing.

[Edited on 11-29-2005 by Jie-Huli]

Jie-Huli,

I think I understand your desire to choose the best of all possible alternatives. I agree with you. My question is: if there are four possible choices, and one is sinful, three are not, but one of the three is the "best" choice (that we are bound to attempt to seek out, but may not find because of our fallibility), is it sin to choose one of the remaining two choices?

If so, where does the Scripture say this?

I believe it is primarily a heart issue. It is indeed a sin to choose one of the remaining two choices if we make that choice because we neglected to fix our eyes on spiritual considerations and did not really diligently wrestle with the question, so far as we could with the information God in His providence brought to our attention. And so the modern philosophy which would give young Christians the idea that they need not wrestle with the questions too much because there is not necessarily one "right" answer is quite dangerous.

There are times when even the best Christians in this world make poor decisions because of fatigue, blind spots, etc. These are instances of sin, yes, to varying degrees. In the future they will normally come to see the folly of those instances, but at any rate in the general course of their lives they do seek to know God's will and to walk in line with it.

As for Scriptural support, I would turn first to Proverbs 3:5-6: "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." While this passage has perhaps been misused by some, I think it definitely supports the position that it would be sinful to make decisions without earnestly seeking to determine God's will in the matter. Verses which speak reproachfully of people turning aside unto their own ways also come to mind.

Blessings,

Jie-Huli

But I am not speaking of those who trust to themselves, but who earnestly seek the Lord, yet do not always make the perfect choice. Are you suggesting that God will allow the Christian to always be infallible? How many choices are we faced with each day? Is there only one non-sinful choice for each?

If not, how are they different? You suggest it is a heart issue - but the heart is to be guided by the Word of God. It is the Word that is the rule of faith and life. If the Word does not tell me what to do, how can I know it? Is the Word capable of completely differing application? In other words, how do I know that I have to chose Harvard over Yale, and to do otherwise would be sin (without knowing all ends), and yet for you the exact opposite could be true.

I am all for diligent searching and applying the Scirptures, but I cannot see where every single decision we make has only one non-sinful choice.

Dear Tim,

I deal with this frequently as a prof and as a pastor. I have come to the conclusion that the question contains within it a false premise, namely, that we can know by some extra-canonical revelation God's prescriptive will for specific situations not specifically addressed by Scripture.

This quest, it seems to me, seeks to know God's providence in advance. Bruce Waltke has addressed this very well in a recent volume (easily found on Amazon). It also runs afoul of Deut 29:29. The revealed things (law and gospel) belong to us and our children but the secret things belong to the Lord.

What car to buy, where to go to school, whom to marry - none of these things is revealed in Scripture. It is, by definition hidden. If it is hidden, it is hidden.

What we need, according to Proverbs, is wisdom. That is recognizing reality for what it is and living appropriately. The fool does not recognize reality and consequently lives inappropriately.

Confessional Reformed folk are cessationist. We confess that the Scriptures are the canon of God's special revelation. Beyond them we dare not go, yet, because of the unhappy influence of Pietism, it has become acceptable to ask, in effect, for private, extra-canonical revelation.

To ask "this job or that job," is in effect, to ask God to open the canon ever so briefly so I can know exactly what I should do in any given situation. Then we set about looking for methods ("small, still voice" or the fleece, even though these are never given as methods whereby Christians gain revelation) whereby we may know the secret will of God after the close of the canon. We become practical Pentecostals.

My advice (as I tell my students) is to "put away your canon opener."

There are objective, revealed truths. Which car? I don't know. Ask for wisdom. I can tell you categorically, unequivocally, "Don't steal the car." Wisdom might say, "Buy a car within your means." Red car or blue car? It is morally indifferent.

There are those who would do away with the category adiaphora, i.e., things morally indifferent, but it is a valuable, biblical category (Gal 2:4; 5:1,2; 1 Cor 10:29). Yes, there are limits to freedom (1 Pet 2), but there is real freedom from the tyranny of the "Spirit-led" opinions of others.

I don't mean to sound cold or callous. Getting wisdom is serious business. It is a spiritual matter. We need the Spirit to illumine the Word and to enable us to understand and apply it. We don't need special revelation, however.

Pray for wisdom. Seek it. Practice it, but don't ask for special revelation. Redemption is finished. The canon given to explain that redemption is finished along with redemption.

rsc

__________________
R. Scott Clark, D.Phil
Professor of Church History and Historical Theology

"For Christ, His Gospel, and His Church"
Associate Pastor
Oceanside URC
The Heidelblog

I think my emphasis is much more on our responsibility in making sure our decision-making process is a godly, prayerful and Scripturally-centred one, more than on the choices themselves. If it is, then we can be confident in the specific choices we make.

Again, I agree completely that our hearts are to be guided by the Word of God. But my contention is that even when the Word "does not tell me what to do "directly, it provides me with all the principles I need to make the decision according to God's will.

It is true that one person might be guided by certain Scriptural principles to make a different choice than another person; this might be due to our different giftings, abilities, backgrounds, etc. The principles do not change, but the application of certain truths may change because of our different situations. One action might be sin to one person but not to another, because the motives and musings of the heart which led to the action were different.

But to me none of this undermines the fact that we are to seek diligently the one best choice most faithful to Scriptural principles, and that to neglect this diligent seeking would be sin.

Are the answers always simple and clear-cut? No, they require much self-examination and meditation. But this is the case with all Biblical commands. The Bible tells us to love our neighbours as ourselves. How can I know that I have done so in any specific situation? This requires self-examination, and it is likely I have fallen short in at least some measure, and to the extent I have this is sin, whether or not I felt at the time I was striving as well as I could to love my neighbour.

God does not make us infallible, but to the extent we do fail in anything, that is our sin.