Just a thought comming off of the lottery thread.

Is all gaming sin? (cards etc) If not, where is the line? If so why?

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Donald Jacobs
Marysville. WA
Cascade Church (CRCNA)

Cum vero infirmor tunc potens sum.

I see nothing in Scripture that forbids gambling per se. As long as gambling is viewed as entertainment along the lines of going to the movies, playing miniature golf, etc, I can't think of why it would be a sin. If it becomes an addiction or interferes with tithes & offerings, it becomes a problem.

In short, gambling in moderation for entertainment is acceptable.

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Mason
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA)
New York, NY

"Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." - Isaiah 1:18

Gambling is a violation of the 8th Commandment.

Also see WSC #73-75 and WLC #140-142.

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA,
Fairmount ARP Church
Candidate Under Care Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary
"The benefit of deliverance becomes the more precious in the same proportion in which we are brought to apprehend the magnitude of the evil from which we have been rescued"
-- Zacharias Ursinus, Commentary on the Heidelberg Catechism

But does the prohibition of "wasteful gaming" in WLC #142 imply that not all gaming is wasteful, and that non-wasteful gaming is not prohibited? Otherwise, the word wasteful would be superfluous. . .

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Evie B.
Cambridge, Massachusetts
Attending Park Street Church, Boston

"Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert." --Isaiah 43:18-19 (ESV)

Interesting.

Two things, first what is the purpose of gambling? The base purpose of gambling is to accrue monetary worth without the requisite value of work which is a clear violation of the 8th commandment. Secondly spending money on games of chance is wasteful spending. See J.G. Vos' commentary on Q. 142 for more.

Clear to whom?

What exactly is wasteful spending? If I spend money at a blackjack table to get 2 hours of entertainment instead of at a movie theater, am I wasting money instead of spending it "wisely" at the theater? Or is all expenditure on recreation frivolous?

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DAVIDIVS DOCTVS VTRIVSQVE LINGVAE
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

Good point. There is a distinction between games of pure chance (slot machines) and games that combine skill and chance (poker, blackjack, etc.), but even so, I can see a good argument that in gambling, most people necessarily lose, and nothing useful is produced -- unless you count the entertainment value for all the players as something useful.

I'm not sure what I think about this, so I'm very interested to see how this thread unfolds.

The purpose of gambling isn't necessarily to "accrue monetary worth." I never expect to win $400 million on the rare occasion I purchase a lotto ticket, nor do I hope to become a millionaire after a few hands of blackjack - it's more for thinking about what I would do if I did win that provides the entertainment. But even if one were to make money on gambling, if they have a system or strategy, isn't that requisite work? Isn't counting cards a developed skill that takes time and energy? Haven't they earned their winnings?

Also, if spending $1 on a lotto ticket is wasteful, what about buying a pack of gum, a soft drink, or an ice cream cone? Are those things "wasteful" as well? If they are, then I would simply disagree that God expects us to be so rigid with our money. If they aren't, then I would ask what the difference is between those items and a lotto ticket or a hand at the tables?

I think any kind of gaming where you benefit from someone else's loss is wrong. So playing cards with plastic chips with no monetary value is just for fun, but playing the lottery where the entirety of your winnings comes from other people's losses is wrong. Especially in the case of the lottery, it is often the people who can least afford it that buy lottery tickets hoping to get rich. I could not in good conscience benefit from that.

But I play monopoly and other board games and cards without any qualms so long as they are not getting in the way of time I should be spending in the Word or studying theology. For me, in the past computer games have been a vice that took up 8-10 hours a day of my time, and that was wrong of me. I generally avoid computer games now because I have a tendency to use them irresponsibly, and lead myself into sin.

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"I was found by those who did not seek me; I was made manifest to those who did not ask for me." Romans 10:20b

Angela Asano
Edwardsville, IL
Member, Center Grove Presbyterian Church - PCA

Surely you can see the difference between gambling and watching a movie. The Scriptures speak against in a number of places (WLC Q. 142 cites these particularly) the gathering of wealth by not giving equal value for the pay rendered.

What about spending 25 cents on the video slot machine at the bar so you don't have to pay the two dollars for the beer?

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Josh Taylor
Verde Valley Reformed Chapel, OPC
Cottonwood, AZ

But who determines equal value for pay? One could even make the argument that the act of gambling itself is requisite work....

like dave Ramsey said in his book, "the lottery is a rich man's tax". The rich don't waste their money on it, they do their math.

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Scott Shahan
Member of First Evangelical Free Church, EFCA
firstfreesf.org
Sioux Falls, SD

Better is the sin which humbles me, than that duty which makes me proud.
Thomas Watson

Do you think playing games of chance is "work"?

In other words do you think it is of equal value to be paid $10,000 for pulling a slot lever when others have to work 8 months or more to earn that amount?

Another argument against gambling is that it violates the 10th Commandment against Coveting.

What do you think about investing in the stock market?

CT

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Hermonta Godwin
Christ The King PCA
Raleigh, NC

There is a difference both in scope and in purpose to day trading and pulling slots and/or playing cards.

Okay, so how is the scope and purpose different?

CT

Is the receipt of money (or something else of value) by gift from someone else also sinful? No value was given in consideration for the gift.

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Jon Peters
Member, Reformation Fellowship (OPC) (Roseville, CA)
Folsom, CA

Do the Scriptures speak against the giving of gifts?