Is Gambling Ethical? - Page 2

tcalbrecht · #41 (**permalink**) 06-22-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StaunchPresbyterian

WLC Q. 142. What are the sins forbidden in the eighth commandment?

A. The sins forbidden in the eighth commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required, are, theft, robbery, man-stealing, and receiving anything that is stolen; fraudulent dealing, false weights and measures, removing landmarks, injustice and unfaithfulness in contracts between man and man, or in matters of trust; oppression, extortion, usury, bribery, vexatious lawsuits, unjust enclosures and depredation; engrossing commodities to enhance the price; unlawful callings, and all other unjust or sinful ways of taking or withholding from our neighbor what belongs to him, or of enriching ourselves; covetousness; inordinate prizing and affecting worldly goods; distrustful and distracting cares and studies in getting, keeping, and using them; envying at the prosperity of others; as likewise idleness, prodigality, wasteful gaming; and all other ways whereby we do unduly prejudice our own outward estate, and defrauding ourselves of the due use and comfort of that estate which God hath given us.

This portion of the catechism seems to be concerned with extreme behavior. Does “idleness” mean that I can’t take a nap after I come home from work? Or does it mean an aversion to all forms of meaningful work? Likewise, “prodigality” means “extravagant wastefulness”. The “wasteful” in front of “gaming” is a similar modifier. Certainly not all forms of “gaming” are being condemned, otherwise why the modifier? If it is always “wasteful” to drop a few bucks in a casino then it must be just as wasteful to visit a big league ballpark or attend the opera.

It think the catechism leaves plenty of room for a sanctified conscience working within the boundaries of Christian liberty in this (and other) areas.

tcalbrecht · #42 (**permalink**) 06-22-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I follow Jesus

I am not talking about works-salvation, I am talking common sense, Jesus warned "watch" when he said that do you think he meant "Watch for me in a gambling den or a hash-bar."? Look, he died for our sins, when we say it does not matter where we are or what we are doing when he returns we come pretty close to trampling the cross of Christ underfoot.

So, we are really talking about subjectivism. Such an attitude may appear common sensical to you, but it does not to me. And I am not called to subject my Christian liberty to someone else’s “common sense”.

Since Jesus does not describe the correct physical posture in which we are called to “watch” (unless to take an extremely literal view of the story of the virgins and their oil lamps) this doesn’t really seem to be much of an issue. If you can make a case for drinking whiskey in a bar as objectively sinful, then such activity is to be avoided at all time, not just when Jesus is about to return. Likewise with gambling.

All you are left with is pious sounding advice that, frankly, does not resonate with all believers, esp Reformed ones.

etexas · #43 (**permalink**) 06-22-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcalbrecht

So, we are really talking about subjectivism. Such an attitude may appear common sensical to you, but it does not to me. And I am not called to subject my Christian liberty to someone else’s “common sense”.

Since Jesus does not describe the correct physical posture in which we are called to “watch” (unless to take an extremely literal view of the story of the virgins and their oil lamps) this doesn’t really seem to be much of an issue. If you can make a case for drinking whiskey in a bar as objectively sinful, then such activity is to be avoided at all time, not just when Jesus is about to return. Likewise with gambling.

All you are left with is pious sounding advice that, frankly, does not resonate with all believers, esp Reformed ones.

Fine, Tom. Have it your way. Be at Caesars Palace in Vegas when the Saviour comes. That is your deal, sorry I care about a fellow Christian. And I do care,I was not trying to bust your chops, I think things like that matter. Grace and Peace.

mgeoffriau · #44 (**permalink**) 06-22-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I follow Jesus

Fine, Tom. Have it your way. Be at Caesars Palace in Vegas when the Saviour comes. That is your deal, sorry I care about a fellow Christian.

Why take that tone? How can you follow that argument to its logical end? Would you wish to be in the movie theatre when Christ returns? Watching TV? Surfing the internet? Reading? Going to the bathroom? Eating some McDonalds?

I just don't buy it. No man knows the date. If it's permissable within the bounds of Christian liberty, then you have no right to burden another Christian's conscience with your qualms about the activity. If it's not permissable within the bounds of Christian liberty, then it should not be done. Period.

Dagmire · #45 (**permalink**) 06-22-2007, 03:44 PM

I don't think your tone is good or called for either, Max. You are putting forth one position and others are responding that they don't hold the same position. They have used Scripture, catechisms, logic, reason, and exposition of all of those things to put forth their positions. And you, quite frankly, are being very dismissive of everyone's opinion but your own. Someone calmly puts forth that they don't agree with you and you say "Fine, be that way. Be in a casino when the Savior comes."

I don't think that's necessary.