An email with www.atruechurch.info

ajrock2000 · #1 (**permalink**) 05-04-2007, 03:42 PM

I was browsing the web looking for peace plan articles by rick warren, and came across this website, http://www.atruechurch.info/rickwarren.html
I read it and most of it was good except for a few minor things. I then went to the home page of this site and it reads...

Quote:

If you are involved with the kind of Christianity that views the "church of Christ", or Billy Graham, or Rick Warren, or Joel Osteen, or James Dobson, or Pat Robertson, or John MacArthur, or Tony Evans, or Greg Laurie, or Charles Stanley, or Chuck Smith, or Fred Price, or J. Vernon McGee, or Charles Blake, or Chuck Swindoll, or Gene Scott, or Harold Camping (Family Radio), or John Piper, or T. D. Jakes, or David Jeremiah, or Charles Spurgeon, or Dave Hunt, or David W. Cloud, or Perry F Rockwood, or Neil Anderson, or Robert Schuller, or Jack Hayford, or Benny Hinn, or Miles McPherson, or Ray Comfort, or Chuck Colson, or C. S. Lewis, or Pope John Paul, or Hank Hanegraaff, or Paul Chappell, or any of the like (or any of the likes on "Christian" TV or radio) as godly men, you are not saved. Why? Because, you are on the broad way (Matthew 7:13; 2 Peter 2:2; 2 Timothy 4:3). You have not the characteristic of Christ's sheep (John 10:5). And, men such as these are wells without water (2 Peter 2:17).

This shocked me (some of the names did not). It wasn't the men listed who shocked me the most (Charles Spurgeon definitely did), it was his instant condemnation based on a theologian. So I wrote him an email.

Quote:

I came across your website and I found it quite interesting. I was actually searching the web for a refutation of Rick Warren, and I found your article quite good on it. I then looked at your home page, and was quite shocked at what I saw. I agree that alot of them men you have listed there have much error, and many of them are definitely false prophets (unsaved). I wholeheartedly disagree with you about Charles Spurgeon. I read the article you have on there about him, and many of the things you said, I noticed when I was listening to his sermons (especially about more in heaven than hell). Charles Spurgeon's love for other people astounds me, and his great desire for people to become saved crept into his doctrine on a few points, will this send him to hell? God forbid it would! I am shocked that because of a few doctrinal differences that you would call him unsaved (and everyone who agrees with him). John Wesley, who held strong to the arminian doctrines, had a great passion for Christ, yet God did not grant him to come to grips with some of the harder truths of the Bible. Many times people holding a man-glorifying arminian gospel will have it reflect in their lives how they cater to man and hate the true God, I don't think this wasn't the case with the Wesleys (I could be wrong). If God had every true believer believe 'exactly' the same way, what point would there be to search the scriptures daily to see if they are true (as the Bereans did)? True Christians have never agreed completely on every little thing. My doctrinal beliefs are pretty much the same as yours (except for your pre-millennialism) Does that make you not saved because I don't think you have the correct beliefs on end times? God forbid! Jonathan Edwards was a post-millennialist believing in a Christianizing of the world before Christ returns. I believe this is false, but Jonathan Edwards was one of the greatest men of the grace of God. I have a few Christian friends who we differ in interpretations on various things, but their heart desires Christ and His glory. The key is that when there is a controversial doctrine, they will struggle with it. They will not just harden themselves and pass it off as not important or buck against it (this is when the true heart condition shows). I do agree that the majority of people within the the walls of the external church are unconverted and worshiping a god made after their own image (which is why rick warrens heresies are so dangerous). With all that said, I do think that it is absolutely essential to warn people and speak out on heresies (which I do), and warn people about false prophets and tell the truth. Thank you for your article.

His response:

Quote:

Sad to see you are caught in the prevailing false Christianity. You are certainly headed for eternal torment (Revelation 21:8), because, unlike Paul who curses any and all who preach another gospel (Galatians 1:8-9), you bless them and call them saved (Wesley). You do not know the "way of truth" (2 Peter 2:2; John 14:6).

"My doctrinal beliefs are pretty much the same as yours"

No where near.

Comments?

ajrock2000 · #2 (**permalink**) 05-04-2007, 03:49 PM

Oh, my reply...

Quote:

Thank you for that response, as thought out as it was! For someone who professes Christ as His Lord, you absolutely do not show any fruit of Christ whatsoever. In light of Matthew 5's beattitudes, your profession of Christ seems null and void to me. Yes, the truth should be preached adamantly (as I do at a prison). Man's inability and God's ability to save, these doctrines are the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith. I will preach them with fervency and would die for them. But since I know I am not better than anyone else and I have nothing I have not received, I have a love for others to see them truly saved, as I have been saved (like charles spurgeon). You have no fruits of mercy, gentleness, and compassion for the lost, just condemnation. You talk of humility in your letter to rick warren, but you show none. You really should be ashamed of your behavior. You sound like the pharisee of Luke 18 saying, "God, I thank you that I am not like other people, I know all the right doctrine, and I condemn anyone else who does not" I do, however, think that most of the people holding to free-will works gospels are not saved. We, as christians, are to judge. We can and should (1 cor 5). But just like Rick Warren and the like preach by proclaiming an only-mercy false gospel, so do people like you who teach a false gospel by proclaiming a no-mercy gospel (this same mercy you claim God has had on you). You are just as bad as him.

Regards,

Blueridge Believer · #3 (**permalink**) 05-04-2007, 03:56 PM

You have run into the infamous Darwin Fish. He is truly a stinky Fish as well.
If he were not so serious he'd be funny. No one in the world is saved but him.
He is a nut.

JonathanHunt · #4 (**permalink**) 05-04-2007, 04:09 PM

Phil Johnson's old blog, Pyromaniacs, contains some stuff on Fish.

ajrock2000 · #5 (**permalink**) 05-04-2007, 04:20 PM

oooook...I see.

I read a thing on him a while back, but did not realize his email came back as darwin@atruechurch.info.

Thanks guys.

Joshua · #6 (**permalink**) 05-04-2007, 04:21 PM

Chloe caught a few fish some weeks back.

Blueridge Believer · #7 (**permalink**) 05-04-2007, 04:21 PM

Is Darwin Fish a Wolf?

. You'll get a laugh out of this.

ajrock2000 · #8 (**permalink**) 05-04-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueridge reformer

Is Darwin Fish a Wolf?

. You'll get a laugh out of this.

Hmm, ok. This fellow is a lot more popular than I thought!

Dagmire · #9 (**permalink**) 05-04-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueridge reformer

Is Darwin Fish a Wolf?

. You'll get a laugh out of this.

Did that really happen?

alwaysreforming · #10 (**permalink**) 05-04-2007, 06:25 PM

If that is a true account, it sounds like demon possession....

But why would a demon be shouting accusations AGAINST the false work?

At any rate, it sounds like he has a serious mental condition.

ajrock2000 · #11 (**permalink**) 05-05-2007, 01:28 AM

wow, I have been emailing him back and forth. This guy amazes me. Amazing how unbelievably arrogant, haughty, cold, and heartless a person can be, yet claim to be a child of God. He has told me I am going to hell in every response!

staythecourse · #12 (**permalink**) 05-05-2007, 01:54 AM

To the point I thought the story was made up.

I haven't figured out the spirit/soul difference yet. What went unconscious so the the "truth" part of the man said the truth?

I am not convinced they are not just antagonizing a crazy man. Any more articles on the event?

theologae · #13 (**permalink**) 05-05-2007, 02:26 AM

Check out Phil Johnson's Darwin Fish: www.atruecult.info

Hasn't been updated since 2004, from what I can tell, but gives some interesting history including info about Fish's involvement with MacArthur's church.

staythecourse · #14 (**permalink**) 05-05-2007, 02:50 AM

I can't imagine many (the van shows tithes are low)

THen again, some Latino has quite a few saying he's Jesus in the flesh.

Chris · #15 (**permalink**) 05-05-2007, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Comments?

I think this is a case where you shouldn't have answered a fool according to his folly......

ajrock2000 · #16 (**permalink**) 05-05-2007, 11:44 AM

I find it amusing that he says this refuting Rick Warren (he is right, but he has none of them himself)...

Quote:

Here Warren denies the power of the Holy Spirit that is resident in every believer's life (John 7:39). In the context of speaking to believers, he says "You need the help of other people" in order to overcome "a persistent bad habit, an addiction, or a temptation." Scripture nowhere says any such thing. On the contrary, Scripture says,

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23)

SRoper · #17 (**permalink**) 05-05-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagmire

Did that really happen?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysreforming

If that is a true account, it sounds like demon possession....

But why would a demon be shouting accusations AGAINST the false work?

At any rate, it sounds like he has a serious mental condition.

Tominthebox is a satirical website.

Israelite · #18 (**permalink**) 08-29-2007, 08:53 AM

Darwin Fish is an enemy of Christ and His people.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the below is taken from his site.

Q3. Can you name any other true believers/teachers in history (outside of the Bible) since the early church (100 AD) until now?

answer from Darwin Fish: No

Southern Presbyterian · #19 (**permalink**) 08-29-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwaysreforming

At any rate, it sounds like he has a serious mental condition.

To quote Barney Fife: "He's a nut!"

Mathetes · #20 (**permalink**) 08-29-2007, 02:02 PM

At first, I thought this was the Hypercalvinist who had consigned Calvin and Spurgeon to the flame of hell, but I guess that's a different nutcase.

mangum · #21 (**permalink**) 08-29-2007, 02:07 PM

He's also a polygamist.

Here is his belief about God the Holy Spirit - He is 7 actual distinct spirits:

The Holy Bible (i.e., the Scriptures, all 66 books) contains the very words of the Creator Himself (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21) and, therefore, is identified as the Word of God. Thus, all matters of belief and conduct are subject and accountable to this revealed will of God (Hebrews 4:12-13).

GOD

1. The one and only true God is eternally perfect (Psalm 90:2; Matthew 5:48; Hebrews 13:8). There is nothing in all wisdom, understanding or information that He does not know either in the past, present, or future (Psalm 139:1-6; 147:5; Romans 11:33-36). There is no limit to His power and ability (Jeremiah 32:17, 27). There is no time in which He did not, or will not, exist (Habakkuk 1:12; Revelation 4:8).

2. God is eternally Holy (Isaiah 6:3), completely separate and distinct from His creation (Psalm 113:4-6; 1 Kings 8:27; Isaiah 57:15). All things are of Him, through Him, and to Him (Romans 11:36). He is the cause of all, even evil (Proverbs 16:4, 9; 20:24; Isaiah 26:12; 45:7 KJV; 63:17; Jeremiah 10:23; 17:9; Lamentations 3:37-38 KJV; Amos 3:6 KJV; Romans 11:32, 36). Yet, He is nonetheless righteous (Psalm 145:17) and set apart from all wickedness (Psalm 99:3, 5, 9; Habakkuk 1:13).

3. God has revealed Himself to be plural in personhood (Genesis 1:26-27; Matthew 28:19; Revelation 1:4-5), yet He is still one God (Isaiah 45:5, 14, 21-22; 46:9). He has manifested Himself to be:

a. God the Father (Titus 1:3-4), who is the supreme authority in all that exists (1 Corinthians 15:28). He is the One who gave His only begotten Son to the world (John 3:16). He is the Father of all those who put their faith in Christ (Ephesians 1:3-5). And, He is a "man of war." (Exodus 15:3; see our article, "The Lord Is A Man")

b. God the Son (Isaiah 9:6) is the Lord Jesus Christ, who is both God (Colossians 2:9) and man (1 Timothy 2:5).

c. God the Holy Spirit, who is the Lord Himself (2 Corinthians 3:17), dwells within and is given to every true believer at salvation (Ephesians 1:13; Romans 8:9), and is active in the work of God both in heaven and on earth (John 16:7-11; Genesis 1:2; Revelation 4:5). There is one Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:4), but this one Holy Spirit is plural in who He is (as God is plural in who He is). Zechariah 4:1-10, Revelation 1:4-5, 4:5, and 5:6 describe this one Holy Spirit to be seven ("the seven Spirits of God").

Oh yeah, Jerusalem is God too.