I hope this is in the right section..

Last night we came home to one less chicken, our neighbors dog had gotten our rooster (or at least I'm pretty sure he was a rooster). Right now my husband would like to use the dog in place of a clay pigeon.

So I know we should forgive our neighbors for letting their dog roam around freely but do we have to forgive their dog too?

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Rose, wife of Cody
Momma to Cosette
Redding, CA

Love... it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 1 Corinthians 13:6-7

My blog: Prudenza

You should forgive your neighbor... but the dog was just being a dog.

Was your chicken roaming free or was it secured? If it was roaming free, I don't see any reason why you would think your animal can be free while your neighbor has to keep their's locked up, and that would be what you get for letting a prey animal wander freely when there are predator animals in the vicinity. If, however, it was secured but yet the dog actually tore up a gate or a fence to get to it, and if you can PROVE it was their dog... I wouldn't be afraid to ask them to make it right.

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Ben
Chaplain, US Army
Ft. Riley, KS
TE Ohio Valley Presbytery, PCA

No, I don't believe you need to "forgive" the neighbor's dog. It's not human.

What you do have, though, is an offense by your neighbors. They should restore your rooster, and I would not feel ashamed about asking them to do so.

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://inprincipiodeus.solideogloria.com
http://puritanwisdom.blogspot.com

"As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
John Flavel in Keeping the Heart



Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Our chicken was wandering freely in a fenced vinyard. Their dog dug under the fence to get to them.

Then you should feel no guilt about asking that your rooster be restored to you. They are responsible for their dog's actions.

The dog was just taking what he naturally thought belonged to him......just like you take from the chicken what you think naturally belongs to you. For you to think that you should have to forgive or hold a grudge against a dog which does what it does naturally, would be for you to think that God needs to either forgive you or hold contempt against you for taking from the chicken it's eggs since all things belong to Him anyway. Animals do what God has instilled within them to do as a natural instinct to live just as He has put that within mankind. You think you own the chickens bc you bought them with your money. The dog thinks he owns the chicken bc he won them through hunting. Looks like the dog won....

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sarah
WI
OPC
My Pastor's Sermons: Mark Jenkins...he's awesome!!!

I think a big "bad doggie!" is in order here!

Seriously, a dog's a dog. The neighbor is responsible. That said, doesn't the "ox known to gore" principle come into play here -- i.e., if the neighbor knows this dog roams free and takes down neighbors animals, then he holds some responsibility. If this is a totally new behavior, then it's a problem if it happens again?

That said, a chicken-killing dog ain't going to be rehabilitated.

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JWithnell
Member Bethel OPC
Virginia
http://learningyesican.blogspot.com/

If you're holding a grudge against the dog, then you need to ask God for his forgiveness. The dog won't be offended, but holding a grudge is still wrong.

I don't think I'd ask for restitution unless I was unable to replace the chicken myself. Sure, it's within my rights, but in general I think I'd stick up for my rights if it would benefit someone else(or promote the Gospel).

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Jonathan
Audio Engineer
Reformed Anabaptist
Ohio

Moroni's magical glasses of proper interpretation:

You are kidding, right?

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Richard T. Zuelch, M.Div
Ruling Elder, OPC (not currently serving)
Westminster Presbyterian Church, CA (OPC)
www.alexandermaclaren.wordpress.com
www.reiterations.wordpress.com
www.spurgeonswords.wordpress.com

Devout souls do not take offence at the depths and difficulties of God's Word, but are, thereby, drawn to intenser contemplation of them. - Alexander Maclaren (1826-1910)

I don't entirely disagree (although some chickens can actually be pretty valuable, so I certainly don't think its wrong to ask for restitution) but I do think the dog's owners should know that their animal is killing chickens - just so they can take measures to make sure it doesn't happen again.

As to the original question, no, for all the reasons given above. Also, as someone else said, the dog didn't do anything wrong - he was just being a dog. Its his owners who are to blame for not keeping him on leash or fenced in a yard.

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Kathleen M
nondenominational
Montana

Dogs aren't volitional beings, so forgiveness doesn't apply.

But any farmer knows that the only cure for a chicken-dog is a lead pill administered at high velocity.

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Brad
Member- Eagle Heights PCA
Winchester, VA

Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

I agree with Brad on this one.

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John
Member
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net

Forgiveness is a forensic, legal transaction between God and His people and people and their neighbor/s. We don't make covenants or contracts with animals.

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Toni Cunningham, Wife of Bill (Theognome)
Parkwoods OPC, Overland Park KS

"Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, As, to be hated, needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, We first endure, then pity, then embrace." ~ Alexander Pope

What!?!

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~ Charles Stephen Barribeau ~
Christ Presbyterian Church , OPC (They sing alot of Psalms!)
Original Westminster Standards (I need to study more...)
The Puritans were best! Also... I NEED TO READ MORE!!!
Philipians1:29(KJV) For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Janesville, Wisconsin (In the fellowship of Bob Vigneault and Matt+Megan Meisberger)

Is holding grudges against animals a common occurrence? If so, can you explain why this requires forgiveness from God?

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David
PCA
Bartlett, TN

Who am I, O Lord God, and what is my house,
that you have brought me thus far?
2 Samuel 7:18

I would definitely contact the owners and check with the local police before taking this step. Even here in ranch country, its can be illegal (not to mention a little cruel) to shoot a dog.

Actually, in most rural settings that I have inhabited, it would be expected of the owner himself to administer the medication. At least if he wanted maintain amicable relations with his neighbors. An influx of PETA-member city escapees may change that in any given locale.

"So I know we should forgive our neighbors for letting their dog roam around freely but do we have to forgive their dog too?"

Only if you are United Methodist.

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Steven J. Carr (Sven)
http://beholdingthebeauty.blogspot.com/
Eagan, MN
PCA
"Weak is the effort of my heart / And cold my warmest thought / But when I see thee as thou art / I'll praise thee as I ought."--John Newton
Trophy Wife/Arm Candy: Crystal Ann Children: Steven Jr. and Hannah Grace

Rose,

Here are some thoughts on animals:

Exodus 21:28-29
If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit. But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

Although dealing with a life-and-death judgment, the lesser judgments follow the same principal: people are responsible for their animals. If they did not restrain their dog, they must make restitution. If the dog is a repeat offender, the penalty is even more severe.

Therefore, they ought to make restitution. Also, demanding restitution and forgiveness of the animal's owner are not contrary.

Cheers,

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Adam B., Wine Country, California, PCA

"I fear not to hold with Junius, de Politia Mosis cap. 6, that he who was punishable by death under that Judicial law, is punishable by death still; and he who was not punished by death then, is not to be punished by death now."