Pre-Fall - Naked and unashamed
Post-Fall - Naked and shamed

Revelation 19:8 shows we are still clothed by Christ's righteousness

Is nakedness still shameful in eternity future? Do we wear clothes in eternity future or are we clothed?

Just asking, I'm trying to think through something for an article I want to write on modesty.

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Andrew Barnes
Husband of Dena
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

I would not think that it would be shameful as surely (as you point out) shame is a result of sin, we will have new heavenly bodies and no sin. I would have thought that all references to robes etc in eternity are figurative.

Think how marvelous it will be not to have to worry about lust or shame anymore.

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Mike
London City Presbyterian Church
London
England

"Surely, we wish to be orthodox, but we must first learn what real orthodoxy is. Surely, we wish to be progressive, but we must first have a basis to progress from."

man, I need to work out more if that's the case!



If we are perfected in heaven, the more rotund saints....will they be at optimal weight in heaven?



I'm SERIOUS.

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Agree 100%, Hippo.

The real question is what should be our attitude to non-sexual or non-lascivious nudity here on Earth...

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Mason
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA)
New York, NY

"Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." - Isaiah 1:18

I don't think this follows. There is no consideration for the simple themes of propriety and dignity. And I do not think that such are only post-fall considerations.

Adam and Eve were alone. We do not know how they would have naturally treated a situation where children were present, a society. Shame, as we know it, would have been unknown. However, that doesn't mean that under ordinary circumstances, people wouldn't have done "right" by dressing appropriately, whatever that could have meant.

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Rev. Bruce G. Buchanan
ChainOLakes Presbyterian Church, CentralLake, MI


When posting friends, kindly bear those words of earthly wisdom in mind:
Oh, that God the gift would give us
To see ourselves as others see us.
--Robert Burns, 1786 (modernized) ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? --

I agree with you Pastor Bruce, which is why modesty is utterly subjective. The definitions of "right" and "appropriate" dress are ultimately impossible to define when it comes to modesty...

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Mason
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA)
New York, NY

"Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." - Isaiah 1:18

Mason,
I think that modesty is culturally sensitive. However, brazen lasciviousness comes in many forms, and our own culture is moving in a rebellious direction. Skimpy isn't always just about the climate.

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Rev. Bruce G. Buchanan
ChainOLakes Presbyterian Church, CentralLake, MI


When posting friends, kindly bear those words of earthly wisdom in mind:
Oh, that God the gift would give us
To see ourselves as others see us.
--Robert Burns, 1786 (modernized) ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? --

I don't know if it is as subjective as many think. Note: that in verse 7 of Genesis 3 that Adam and Eve cover with loin cloths. BUT this is not enough for the LORD, it says in verse 21, " And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them."

Loin cloths were not good for the Lord even when the context is the Lord, Adam, and Eve. The marriage bed is obviously different, but in regular life even in the home could not we discern from this that at least more clothing than undergarments and/or the bathing suits of today should be worn?

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Andrew Barnes
Husband of Dena
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

In John's Revelation it shows that the curse will be lifted and we will live in a restored garden paradise. John states we will not need the sun for the Lord will be the light. We will be like Adam and Eve, but we will be covered in the glory of Christ, so there will be no need for clothing as we know it. We are covered now because of the shame associated with sin. Dr. Ronald Sigenthaler, the executive minister at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Ft. Lauderdale, FL wrote a great article on this very issue of clothing. You could contact him or I will try to see if I still have a copy of this article. He wrote it about four years ago.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:

To be honest, this argument really doesn't make sense to me. Adam and Eve were completely naked before the Fall, so obviously no clothing at all was "good enough for the Lord." In fact, in His perfect plan there would be no need for clothes at all. It is man's shame over sin, not the Lord's, that necessitates the use of clothing. In God's perfect plan, clothes are completely unnecessary.

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Mason
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA)
New York, NY

"Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." - Isaiah 1:18

Moving? Seems we're well entrenched in such a direction...

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)


Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

My, my, I certainly HOPE so!!!

BTW - 60 lbs. weight loss and counting on my diet. So please, Lord, if we don't have optimal weights in heaven, can you at least wait another few months until I lose the other 60 lbs?

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I was meaning to see that it wasn't good enough for the Lord post-fall meaning a loincloth is not suitable for a curse. I don't know I'm just thinking in my head out loud.

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Andrew Barnes
Husband of Dena
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church