People claim that by not doing so is revealing conditional love.

__________________
Tim Potts
Siloam Springs, Arkansas
Member of Covenant Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Student at John Brown University
-Let the church change the world and rather than the world change the church-

Certainly you can befriend a homosexual, the only thing is that you set boundaries on that relationship, just as you would with any other sinful behavior.

I can be friends with a drunkard, I just ask that if they are coming to my home then they don't drink before they come over or while they are here. If they choose to spend time with me, they need to be sober.

You could do the same type of thing in that friendship. If they come to your home they leave their partner at home, and if you go to their home then you are choosing to subject yourself to their choices and behavior, even if you diasgree with it.

__________________
Bobbi Clark
Covenant Member
Pinewood Pres. (PCA) Middleburg

When I kept Silent, My bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. Psalm 32:3

It depends...how do you define "befriend"?

"revealing conditional love" ...ummmmm is this bad?
Where is the verse that says we are to "love unconditionally"?

On another note...I have a feeling that I'm not the only guy here that thinks something ain't quite right with your cuddly kitty-cat picture. You need to lose that thing!

__________________
Christopher
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."
Ecclesiastes (12:13)
Church Affiliation: Faith Presbyterian OPC

Sorry Tim but this deserves a

Seriously though, I think it would be fine to be a friend to a homosexual as long as they understand that their sin is not something you condone or want to be associated with.

1 Corinthians 5:9-10

"I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world."



[Edited on 9-21-2005 by poimen]

__________________
Rev. Daniel Kok
Pastor of Grace Reformed Church (URCNA)
Leduc, Alberta CANADA
Church Blog

"there is no creature, either in heaven or on earth, who loves us more than Jesus Christ"
Belgic Confession, Article 26

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Woah, thats pretty judgemental and presumputious, I know a lot of men who like kittens and cats and who cuddle with them like that.

Love is unconditional, that is how God loves us and how He expects us to love others, Un-conditionally, Now, RELATIONSHIPS are based on conditions, as is shown throughout scriptures.

While we were yet sinners Christ died for us correct? Isn't that "unconditional love"?

However, there are certain conditions that must be met before God will be in a relationship with us, first we must acknowledge were sinners, and confess it, and we must repent of those sins, and we must believe on Jesus Christ, then God will have a relationship with us.

His love is there, whether we accept Jesus or not, whether we confess our sins or not, God still loves us, but He doesn't allow a relationship to be formed just because He loved us.

does/did Jesus befriend sinners?

and there you have your answer.

PW

__________________
Pastor Phillip M. Way
[url=http://www.timeintheword.org][color=blue] Maranatha Community Church of Central Texas[/color][/url]
A Reformed Baptist Congregation and Member Church of the
Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals [url=http://www.firefellowship.org][color=red](FIRE)[/color][/url]

Blogging at: [url=http://pastorway.blogspot.com/][color=blue][i]pastorway[/i][/color][/url]
Sermons Online at: [url=http://www.sermonaudio.com/timeintheword][color=blue]TIME in the Word Ministries[/color][/url]

When all souls are saved and all mourners comforted we may venture to discuss recondite theories, but not while graveyards are filling with those who know not God. -- CH Spurgeon

[b]The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
Luke 18:27[/b]

[Edited on 9-21-2005 by poimen]

I'm sure that verse is right beside the verse that says, "Love the sinner and not the sin."

__________________
Ryan
1689 London Baptist Confession

We must remember that becoming friends with someone such as a homosexual builds a trust with him with you and it would present more opportunities to present the gospel.

__________________
Joe Burgess
Grace Bible Church - http://www.gracemessenger.com/
Olive Branch,MS

"Eighty and six years have I served Him, and He never did me any injury: how then can I blaspheme my King and my Saviour?" - St. Polycarp

Some can, some can't. I would say it depends greatly upon the Christian.

Despite the Christian's desire for it not to happen, the Christian will be exposed to serious sin and could get caught up in it and fall into sin himself. Especially men as pornography is such a serious and rampant problem in that community. We should never overestimate our spiritual maturity in the face of sin. That being said, it is possible, and even desirable to have relationships with unbelievers so that we can reflect Christ to them. They may never have felt the benefits of being around a genuine Christian and may come to a knowledge of the Lord in this manner.

We should always be aware of the degree to which we get entangled in a life that is inundated with serious sin.

__________________
Ron Grove
Glencullen Baptist Church (1689 LBC)
Portland, OR

rgrove
Exactly, which is why boundaries need to be set in place.

If you have a problem with setting personal boundaries and relationship boundaries then it could present problems.

There is are some really good books for learning how to set Biblical boundaries if you have that problem on when to say yes or no. Especially if you have an issue with others always ignoring your boundaries.

"Boundaries for Kids"
"Boundaries in Dating"
"Boundaries"
"Boundaries in Marriage"

I've been trying to formulate a balanced, biblical response but I just can't get past the picture of a man cuddling a kitty. Gonna go sit with my large breed dog and kick back a strong ale and think about next weeks Packer game.

__________________
Bob Vigneault (Bawb Vēēn-yo)
"We are God's children and He's the Father of all fathers and we need to obey him." Jean-Baptiste Vigneault (5)

The Heartbeat of Heaven (blog) MySpace (Music), MySpace (Personal)
Member of Christ Presbyterian Church, Janesville, WI OPC www.christ-opc.org

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Hey, I had a cat that died last year, and I used to cuddle the cat and liked the little fellow! So back off!

Maybe this should be taken to another thread, but I'm curious what the issue is with the picture.

Does it make him (in your or others opinion) look like 'less' of a man?]

If so, by whose standard of "manliness" are you walking in God's or Man's? that it would make one think Does it make one less of a man to cuddle with a kitten?

If the picture were of a young man cuddled with his infant child would one think things weren't quite right with THAT picture either?

If the picture were of a young man cuddled with a puppy, would you think things weren't quite right, with that picture either?

So again, I ask by whose standard of 'maleness' are you judging, God's or Man's? What makes the difference that it is a kitten? What men aren't allowed to appreciate God's creation of Kittens? Are they somehow sinful?

I'm asking because I'm really curious if you've ever considered where those thoughts come from, God's opinion or the world's opinion?

I mean, who cares what the "world" thinks about if a man cuddles with a Kitten or not?

Sorry Ryan, I overstepped my 'boundary'. I'll go start a new thread, "Can a reformed Christian man befriend a male-gendered-cat-lover?"

(Anticipating the response, "Hey, what about female cats".)
(Obligatory, "Ha ha")
(Follow-up apology to the person who will take me seriously)
(Yadda-yadda-yadda and I'm out)

"For there is some danger of falling into a soft and effeminate Christianity, under the plea of a lofty and ethereal theology. Christianity was born for endurance; not an exotic, but a hardy plant, braced by the keen wind; not languid, nor childish, nor cowardly. It walks with strong step and erect frame; it is kindly, but firm; it is gentle, but honest; it is calm, but not facile; obliging, but not imbecile; decided, but not churlish. It does not fear to speak the stern word of condemnation against error, nor to raise its voice against surrounding evils, under the pretext it is not of this world; it does not shrink from giving honest reproof, lest it come under the charge of displaying an unchristian spirit. It calls sin sin, on whomsoever it is found, and would rather risk the accusation of being actuated by a bad spirit than not discharge an explicit duty. Let us not misjudge strong words used in honest controversy.

Out of the heat a viper may come forth; but we shake it off and feel no harm. The religion of both Old and New Testaments is marked by fervent outspoken testimonies against evil. To speak smooth things in such a case may be sentimentalism, but it is not Christianity. It is a betrayal of the cause of truth and righteousness. If anyone should be frank, manly, honest, cheerful (I do not say blunt or rude, for a Christian must be courteous and polite); it is he who has tasted that the Lord is gracious, and is looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God. I know that charity covereth a multitude of sins; but it does not call evil good, because a good man has done it; it does not excuse inconsistencies, because the inconsistent brother has a high name and a fervent spirit; crookedness and worldliness are still crookedness and worldliness, though exhibited in one who seems to have reached no common height of attainment." (Spurgeon citing Horatius Bonar)

If they are claiming to be Christian, and you've pointed out their sin...etc (mt 18, etc.)..

__________________
Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

If the homosexual knows your Biblical beliefs concerning homosexuality and is comfortable with it, so be it. But put a limit to the relationship least he converts you to his philosophy of acceptance of the lifestyle as opposed to you converting him to your philosophy.

__________________
~Keon Garraway~ Brooklyn, NY Member of Franklin Square OPC

Love for God demonstrated by the love for our children in giving them a God centered education is the only hope for our country. by David Morrow
Pslam 71:20 [Thou], which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

What of 1 Corinthians 5:5 (i think...) about not associating with so called brothers...

What if the homosexual proclaims to be a Christian?

There are multiple approaches to this problem, but here is one text:

John 15:1-11 - "15:1 "œI am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full."

Jesus is not talking about periodic sin, since all Christians sin in that way, he's talking about purposefully and perpetually walking in outright constant sin and rebellion against His commandments. He's decieving himself and it's probable that this will have eternal consequences.

Again, I recommend caution in long term relationship with a homosexual if they will not repent, and especially if it's a professing believer. Just recently I had a good friend who met his wife at a prominant SBC seminary and they got married. She was attending too of course. His wife got into acting and we're here a couple years after that and she's declared she's a lesbian and divorcing him. She still professes to be a believer, but you can take your pick of any number of texts in the Bible that would call that profession into question. I expect she'll openly reject Christ in time unless the Lord is using this somehow to bring her closer to Him eventually. I truly pray that's the case. Moral of this true story is that if we hang around sin and temptation long enough we may well find ourselves ensnared.

[Edited on 9-21-2005 by rgrove]

excellent point. I think if the friendship is one of necessity, so be it, i.e in the case of a mother, father, brother, sister, cousin. But if it is not out of necessity, I would limit it severely. But this in no way means that you do not love the person and would look out for their best interest. If they come with you asking you for a favor etc, you willingly do it. But buddying up and hanging out is a no no.

If they are at enmity with God, they are at enmity with you, no matter how sweet it looks on the surface.

I really could care less if a guy cuddles a kitten because I was joking! As for myself I would never do it because I hate animals.

I would not befriend a homosexual, for the same reason I would not befriend a witch, a kidnapper, a murderer, or child-molester.

That is not to say I would not be a good samaritan to one of those individuals. Lovi