Attitude Adjustment

blhowes · #1 (**permalink**) 02-13-2007, 06:35 AM

I could certainly use a good dose of the attitude expressed in Josh's "Let it be known:" thread. Its really gotten me thinking about some of my own attitudes that need to be changed.

I was thinking about this verse yesterday:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

...and I was wondering what other verses do you know of that speak about attitudes we should have towards the ministers of God (attitudes we should have even if they don't believe exactly as we do)? Are there any good puritan works (online) that you could recommend that talk about this kind of thing?

Kristine with a K · #2 (**permalink**) 03-12-2007, 04:06 PM

I've been reading through Thomas Watson's "The Ten Commandments" and just this morning came across a bit that has to do with this subject. He classifies it under the 5th Commandment, saying "father is of different kinds; as the political, the ancient, the spiritual, the domestic, and the natural." Allow me to further quote Father Watson, regarding the magistrate,

"He is the father of his country; he is to be an encuorager of virtue, a punisher of vice, and a father to the widow and orphan. ... These fathers are to be honored, for (I) Their place deserves honor. God has set these political fathers to preserve order and harmony in a nation, and to prevent those state convulsions which otherwise might ensue. When 'there was no king in Israel, every man did that which was right in his own eyes.'...It is a wonder that locusts have no king, yet they go forth by bands. (II) God has promoted kings, that they may promote justice. As they have a sword in their hand, to signify their power; so they have a sceptre, an emblem of justice...These political fathers are to be honored. 'Honor the king.' (I Pe. 2:17) This honor is to be shown by a civil respect to their persons, and a cheerful submission to their laws; so far as they agree and run parallel with God's laws. Kings are to be prayed for, which is a part of the honor we give them. ...(1 Tim. 2:1) We are to pray for our kings, that God would honor them to be blessings; that under them we may enjoy the gospel of peace, and the peace of the gospel."

tcalbrecht · #3 (**permalink**) 03-12-2007, 04:21 PM

Calvin wrote:

Quote:

I doubt not but that he speaks of pastors and other rulers of the Church, for there were then no Christian magistrates; and what follows, for they watch for your souls, properly belongs to spiritual government. He commands first obedience and then honor to be rendered to them. These two things are necessarily required, so that the people might have confidence in their pastors, and also reverence for them. But it ought at the same time to be noticed that the Apostle speaks only of those who faithfully performed their office; for they who have nothing but the title, nay, who use the title of pastors for the purpose of destroying the Church, deserve but little reverence and still less confidence. And this also is what the Apostle plainly sets forth when he says, that they watched for their souls, -- a duty which is not performed but by those who are faithful rulers, and are really what they are called.

Our allegiance to leaders is not unconditional. We are to obey them insofar as they are obedient to Christ the King. We accept their teaching insorfar as it is in conformity to the Word of God.

As in all things we need to focus on Christ as we consider our responsibility to our leaders.

And speaking of our further obligation to our leaders, he adds:

Quote:

As hardly one in ten considers this, it is hence evident how great generally is the neglect of salvation; nor is it a wonder how few at this day are found who strenuously watch over the Church of God. For besides, there are very few who are like Paul, who have their mouth open when the people's ears are closed, and who enlarge their own heart when the heart of the people is straitened. The Lord also punishes the ingratitude which everywhere prevails. Let us then remember that we are suffering the punishment of our own perverseness, whenever the pastors grow cold in their duty, or are less diligent than they ought to be.

blhowes · #4 (**permalink**) 03-12-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristine with a K

I've been reading through Thomas Watson's "The Ten Commandments" and just this morning came across a bit that has to do with this subject. He classifies it under the 5th Commandment, saying "father is of different kinds; as the political, the ancient, the spiritual, the domestic, and the natural." Allow me to further quote Father Watson, regarding the magistrate,

Kristine with a K,

to the PB, and thanks for your helpful post. I had started reading the same work by Thomas Watson a while ago and, as is typical of me, got side-tracked and and only got to I think the 3rd or 4th commandment. I'll have to go back and read what he says about the 5th commandment.
Thanks again,

Bob

blhowes · #5 (**permalink**) 03-12-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcalbrecht

Our allegiance to leaders is not unconditional. We are to obey them insofar as they are obedient to Christ the King. We accept their teaching insorfar as it is in conformity to the Word of God.

As in all things we need to focus on Christ as we consider our responsibility to our leaders.

Tom,
Thanks for your comments. I particularly like the bolded advice you gave. Even at work, when we work for people who don't claim to be Christians, we work in such a way that our actions and words bring honor to Christ, desiring to be a good witness. When they mess up, or do something that doesn't appear to be the best decision, we (ideally) don't join in with the rest of our coworkers in tearing them down behind their back, but either hold our peace or try to say something positive.

It seems, if we cut our bosses such slack, how much more should we do the same for those in authority over us in the church? I'm wondering, though, when you say "We accept their teaching insorfar as it is in conformity to the Word of God.", where do/should we draw the line, and how should we (or should we) react when we don't accept a teaching? There are critical teachings (deity of Christ, trinity, etc) that clearly must not be 'tolerated', but there are other teachings (eschatology, EP, etc) where there are differing opinions among godly Christian leaders. When we have a different opinion, and thus don't see a particular teaching conforming to the Word of God, what is the godly way to 'not accept' a teaching?